T O P
  • By - GTS_2

Judgement_Bot_AITA

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MannyMoSTL

IMO? If you’re not willing to share that kind of information with him? I suspect that you have other concerns as well. If you can’t sit down and have an honest conversation about how to handle money as a couple and what your long term goals re: work, work/life divide, paying for housing, etc *together,* what/how that changes if/when (will??) you have children, if one of you gets sick and what your thoughts are for taking care of parents (and/or other family members), planning for retirement, what you even envision for retirement .., there are So Many financial issues that you need to discus LONG before marriage. For most of *those?* I don’t think you need a hard, “I make $71,645 pre tax” to be able to talk about the super important points I pointed out - to get started. *However,* at some point you do need hard figures. And if you’re not comfortable talking about that or telling your bf right now. Maybe that’s indicative of how you really see him. Which might not be as a life partner. EDIT to add judgement: ESH I have now read almost all of OPs (current) responses and *many* Redditor follow up responses and this is my (again, current & to the best of my ability) understanding: Serious cultural and *personal* differences. In a nutshell: BF has told OP that he *won’t* propose unless she discloses income. OP has decided that she won’t disclose that info until *after* he proposes. Chicken or the egg ?? To re-cap: OP *will* share that info. She just wants the firm commitment of an engagement that they are, in fact, moving forward toward marriage as a couple. *Buuuut* her BF feels he can’t commit to being engaged to her and furthering their relationship without knowing her current salary. Imo? This is a major communication problem that does not bode well for a long term future - irrespective of any discussion of finances. If they can’t even work together to agree on how & when to have this kind of talk? Future communication won’t get easier or better.


AccountWasFound

Like I know how much most of my friends make to the nearest 5k. It comes up just when talking about different jobs. Hell I know what my bf's brother's make and I am not even friends with them, it just came up because one of them is looking for a new job and I asked what pay range he is looking for.


MasterpieceOk4688

That depends very much On the culture. In mine it is absolutely frowned upon. 2 countries further even your Cousin 3rd grade usually knows what you make. As OP stresses the cultural aspect its fair to assume its not the average American/European.


PokeyWeirdo12

Oh, she could be the average american. some of us have been super conditioned to never mention how much we make from job 1. I got hired at a fast food restaurant hiring above minimum wage and worked for a year+, got a raise or two, pretty good. Then my younger brother applied for a job and they were struggling to get workers so his starting pay was going to be more than my current pay. When I found that out, the bosses made out like i had hacked into the fbi and was selling national secrets. I told them I would quit and rehire at the new salary and they somehow managed to find the money to bring me equal to my no-experience brother. The American workplace culture is very very vested in you not knowing how much you are being paid compared to your coworkers. And in my current job, I don't want to share numbers with coworkers because I am pretty sure I am being paid less than lots of people who started well after me and I am embarrassed about it.


Affectionate-Aside39

if your being paid less, talk about your wage. its the only way youll find out if youre being fairly compensated, which is what your employer wants to avoid. they dont want you to know when youve got the short end of the stick, because it means they get to spend less money to keep you around.


Thermohalophile

There's a reason talking about salaries is a federally protected action. Employers don't mind it when they aren't doing shady shit or underpaying their employees (which... most are. whoops)


CatrosePro54

My son had the same issue at Walmart. Hot hired at $9 hr a few years back and then Walmart raised their starting pay to $11 after son had been there a year and got 50 cent raise. A friend of his started at $11 so he quit, went to Target for $21 hr.


doct0rdo0m

God I always hated that about jobs. If there was ever a pay increase they would just throw out all the years you put in for raises and just match you. I had that happen to me at a job. I found out people were starting like $2 more than me so I talked to my boss. He said he couldn't do anything but my raise was coming up and "we'll see what we can do then". Raise time comes and I'm told I would be getting like a 40 cent raise because I didn't do well enough for 50 cents. I told them to fuck off and I quit.


alien_crystal

Absolutely if you suspect you're being paid less, the more reason to talk about it. I was working at a company that hired me at a trainee salary even though I had 7 years experience in a very similar field (I had to take the job urgently and I wasn't getting other offers at the time). Two months later, a guy with basically all the same background that I had, joined the company in a similar position. I discussed salary right away with him because basically our resumes were exactly the same with just a name change, so I wanted to know if he was also being paid as trainee. But nope, he was being paid 3 times more, for doing the same as me. So I went to HR with that information and asked for a raise, the guy supported me. I was offered... 5% raise. I verbally said I was quitting that very same day and sent my resignation and two weeks notice the day after (here in Argentina you need to send it by mail). Now I'm making a good salary for Argentinian standards, not impressive but not so low as it would have been at that company. What was different between the guy making 3 more times than me, and me? He's a guy and I'm a woman (I'm not blaming him of course and he was so angry on my behalf, I'm blaming the company)


WorkInProgress1040

It's protected under U.S. federal law, your employer cannot prevent you from discussing salaries. OTOH if this is just you are uncomfortable talking about wages because you value your privacy that is your right too. Have you considered doing a google search to find out what the average wages are for your profession in your area? That might give you some leverage if you are asking for a raise.


funklab

For real, what kind of secret is she worried about? Does she think BF is going to steal her identity or something? I know how much pretty much all my friends make. If somebody gets a raise we go out and celebrate it. If they move jobs for an extra $15k a year I’m happy for them. I can’t imagine trying to hide that sort of information from someone who Im thinking about marrying. Maybe OP doesn’t want to marry her BF so this is her way of telling him it’s over. It would be more tasteful to have that conversation directly, but I guess this is a low conflict way of telling BF he should look elsewhere for a spouse.


Lexifer31

For real, this is one of the dumber hills to die on that I've seen. OP has a lot of growing up to do. She's not ready for marriage to anyone.


Esabettie

And she wants to be engaged before she tells him, but he can always break the engagement afterwards.


funklab

You might be right, but in rereading this post I see nothing to suggest that OP would ever consider informing him of her salary even if they were engaged or got married. I can’t see why things would change just because she gets a ring.


willthesane

People like avoiding talking about money and it is detrimental to most people.


TragedyRose

Financials and exactly how much the other person makes along with debts is important. This way they can make a plan of how to "share finances" equality or equity. Are they merging accounts or just one household account. How much is feasible to put on OP, amd how will that look for the boyfriend?


lordmwahaha

I agree. I get that some people keep mostly separate finances - but you still need to *know* how much money the other person has, because: \-The government considers that *your* money, and they expect you to know what your assets are (I regularly get asked how much my partner has. I'm expected to know the answer down to the cent. We're not even married yet) \-It affects the quality of life both of you are able to have. When you are building a life with someone, you *need* to be aware of what your combined resources are at all times. Most divorces are about financial issues, iirc. Don't be the next couple who gets a divorce over that.


Professional-Two-403

Agree. If you were early in a relationship it would be different, but when you are talking about marriage that's a different story.


LimitlessMegan

See I find it interesting she didn’t feel like sharing the exact number too… BUT I have nothing but side eye for the guy saying he needs to know how much she makes to know if she’s responsible. No he doesn’t. If she’s responsible is if she has debts. Does she have savings? Does she own anything? Does she send money to anyone to help support them? The most personal and specific info that answers that is her credit score. After that their discussion should be if she wants joint or separate money. He doesn’t need to know her specific income until then. Wanting to know exactly how much she makes sounds like he’s trying to be able to make decisions with her money without her. His behaviour around needing to know makes me uncomfortable. That she doesn’t feel comfortable telling him is just added on top of that.


alacrity

See, I’d have nothing but side eye for a person I was considering as a life partner who clearly doesn’t trust me enough to tell me their salary. That’s a red, red flag. Such an innocuous, meaningless bit of information to horde like it’s Fort Knox, when we’ll be tied together financially and every other way. No trust, no relationship.


AliceInWeirdoland

The 'financially responsible' comment rubs me the wrong way too, but I think context is important. Was it 'I suspect you of being financially irresponsible' or was it 'couples should share these things so that they can know assets, debts, what to expect, and whether they're financially responsible' as part of a reason why this isn't unusual for him to ask?


LimitlessMegan

I agree, the thing about this that throws me off is she’s given him ALL the other info, just not her specific number - and he’s saying either she gives that specific number or it’s a no. Honestly, I don’t think either are displaying info that indicates they should get married. I wonder if he asked her why she didn’t want to share. Or if he can explain why he needs that specific info.


human060989

I ended a relationship over what I consider financial irresponsibility and he considered enjoying life. The amount of debt he had blindsided me, and I never would have found out had he not gotten angry over being denied a credit card - which it turns out he wanted to open because the other 5 were maxed out. And I admit this has made me very wary - even if I don't have reason to suspect financial irresponsibility, I fear it anyway. I'd had no idea to expect it before, and he hadn't shared because he new it would freak me out. I also understand that I am way on the frugal side of things, in spite of making a good living - it's all part of my biography.


AliceInWeirdoland

Thank you for this, I think it's another good example of what I was trying to say: A partner randomly accusing you of being financially irresponsible seems upsetting, but if it's in the context of a larger conversation or where they explain why they have these concerns due to their history... The more I read here, the less I understand why she won't just give him a number. If it's a dealbreaker for her, then break things off, and if the number turns out to be a dealbreaker for him, then better to know now than after you're already further entangled.


Professional-Two-403

You have a good counterpoint. Someone can make a ton but still be irresponsible so that's probably not a good choice of words on the boyfriend's part.


-doqtooth

Btw you’re top comment so you might want to add in a judgement :)


WifeofBath1984

This. They are not ready to get married. The whole conversation needs to be put on hold


SherbetOrganic8210

This is phrased so well. Honestly money has never been a large concern in my life. For me affection and love towards my partner is more important. However, I don't think someone is a horrible person to want to know financial situations ahead of time. Different priorities maybe. But also, I wonder if she would mind if his response to her refraining from divulges finances was "Ok, lets get a prenup then." Would that make her want the marriage less? Cuz if thats the case then I have a feeling that she doesn't care much about the relationship tbh.


MannyMoSTL

In one answer she said she had no problem signing a prenup. Once she’s officially engaged and the wedding is confirmed,of course.


DeeLish814

Thank you for the extra info! You’re the MVP If I knew OP planned to divulge the details at some point, I may have judged differently. Marriage is a huge step and a commingling of lives. It is quite reasonable to discuss all of this and more before proposing to see where you stand and how compatible you are as a couple. I can understand why he’s asking and why he feels she doesn’t trust him now that she refused. I also thought I could understand her stance as well and didn’t think she should give in if she doesn’t want to. The decision would be his to accept her refusal OR decide he doesn’t wish to marry someone who hides their income. Knowing that she plans to share this info anyway leaves me confused! A. If he sees what you make and decides you’re not worth marrying, he will not propose. End result: No marriage B. Making him propose first doesn’t mean he can’t break the proposal after he sees your income. End result: No marriage Her reasoning holds no water now IMO. Making him commit first doesn’t guarantee anything. But I will say the choice is still his. Accept her refusal and propose OR decide proposing to someone who wld refuse your request for info is not someone you’d wish to marry 🤷🏻‍♀️


MannyMoSTL

>Her reasoning holds no water now IMO. To me, her reasoning seems twofold … (1) *Personally*: OP is both hurt and offended that they’ve been a couple for two years who split things very evenly and feels that his need to know her salary is an attempt to decide if she is financially “worthy” of a proposal. Remember, that’s my interpretation of her *feelings.* (2) *Culturally,* and we don’t know where she’s from because she has denied and/or not confirmed people’s queries … She has explained that once the formal engagement is proposed & accepted is when they, as a couple, would begin discussing and hashing out their current financials, future goals, etc. I find it interesting that her BF keeps focusing on her salary and has yet to ask about debt and/or other financial obligations (ie: supporting family, etc). It sends up a red flag that he seems to *only* care about salary. I also find it interesting (maybe suspect) that he obviously knows her country of origin and seems to work with and accept her cultural differences - *except* for this one. Ultimately, there seems to be a very big communication failure between them.


pandorafoxxx

NTA, you're allowed to be as private as you like... But as our friend above pointed out, it may be indicative of something else troubling you. So, what's really going on? Could it be a bit of a protective move on your part? Why do you want to hide your success?


Independent_State125

I disagree.... They are discussing eventual marriage... There's no such thing as being private as you like within a marriage....


msharma123

Hi - I know you are getting some rough comments in this thread so want to shed some perspective. I have been in your shoes. Coming from different cultural background where certain subjects only come to light post engagement or post marriage. I am a 1.5 gen immigrant in a relationship with a much less conservative partner. You are currently 24 and still learning your own footing in the world with your career, with your salary, with your role in this relationship. You have likely your whole life considered and set milestones of when things should be done at what point. And this comes from not having the availability to have those conversations with your parents (as per your taboo comments). I was also you at 24, with the same arbitrary lines. This is not about the salary - it is that you having grown up not being able to trust your parents with this information because you will get unwarranted and unsolicited advice/concern/thoughts and you have learned it is easier being independent in thought so you can make those decisions without the burden of pleasing those conservative comments. You have also probably seen the same negative relationship with money between your parents as well. But that was teenage you. Adult you needs to understand and break those barriers. Now to the question. I believe this is a soft YTA. Not because of what people are saying but because you are saying that you are comfortable being in a relationship with someone with these guards up. I don’t believe you are ready to be serious enough for an engagement - and that is fine but that is something that needs be communicated. He shouldn’t force you because it’s your own journey to take but you should then also not have him on the hook either if you aren’t ready. The lines need to be broken because not everything is black and white. In fact the most successful relationships will always be built on a foundation of trust and honesty. It’s not that you don’t trust him to give him the salary it is that you don’t trust him to help support any serious decisions with you and that is where you need your journey to go rather than arguing about this one thing. Get away from “me vs the universe” to “us vs the universe”. You both need to be on a path to true partnership before even getting to engagement. Good luck in your journey and let me know if you need more advice from another that ran this path for the past 8 years.


GTS_2

Thank you for understanding and for your advice.


walkoncrunchyleaves

I haven't yet read all the comments, so this may get addressed elsewhere, but if u/msharma123's comment is accurate to how you are feeling, then I would suggest that having these uncomfortable conversations with your boyfriend now would be super helpful. Because if he does react in a way you don't like (giving unhelpful advice, judging, attempts to be controlling, etc) than it would be a lot better to know that is the kind of person he is now, rather than later.


msharma123

No problem at all - you are in an exciting transitional phase right now and you are going to look back in 5-10 years and really be proud of how much you have grown. It’s just about realizing your worth and how to maneuver around your wants and desires. Just be patient


GTS_2

Thank you for your kindness


Annonymous_97

Not OP, but this is good for me to read. I have a mom that has constantly drilled into my head to never share what I make either. Because it turns the men "weird" and suddenly all I am is a number to them to take advantage of, apparently. Seeing her lose everything twice in two divorces and then being bled dry by my own ex didn't help matters. Definitely made me more of a "prepare for the next catastrophe alone" type person. Still won't blend finances, but I'll be prepared to give the number up when the time comes. Thanks


LunarMia

Wow! What a sweet considerate comment 🥰


interesting_lurker

This. You summed up the exact reason I don’t talk to my parents about my financial situations. Also a 1.5 gen immigrant here. I’m 30 and still terrified of their judgment on what I do with my money because I was constantly berated throughout adolescence and teenhood on how irresponsible I was with money. I wasn’t any more irresponsible with it than the average kid, with the little money I earned myself. Now, if I’m ever in a position where I need money, I would rather take out a loan than ask them for it. The shame, guilt, and feelings of exposure are just not worth it.


msharma123

Yeah I hear you. My issue is that I tend to have “out of site out of mind” a lot. So while I do make responsible decisions I would get constantly nagged which wasn’t really helpful to any situation. I have however learned to find them a space to give advice in. I found that they actually do give helpful advice but I need to be mindful in how I present things to them. I also told them that I will be very specific when I want to hear about it from them. I understand they are also healing from their own trauma - esp coming to a brand new country. It’s been a long journey and I still get very frustrated all the time but we’ll all get there.


Whole-Recover-8911

You aren't wrong but what you wrote got me thinking about how a lot of women asking advice on this sub who are in that us vs the universe track only to find out that they are sharing a life with a dude who is on that me vs the universe track who quits his job and won't get another one while blowing through her savings. I find it concerning that in the face of her being "slightly" unreasonable about not wanting to give him an exact number on what she makes, he turned it up to 11 and became REALLY unreasonable and seems to be willing to blow up the whole relationship. Op might have trust issues but her dude has something going on as well that feels kinda red flaggy.


msharma123

I agree with your comment. I sometimes read those posts and just want to hug them because of the hole they feel they are in. Which is also why I suggest to suss out whether this is an issue now vs later. If OPs bf is one of these people it will be obvious based on his reactions. But in this case I do believe this reaction may not have been 0 to 11 but rather brewing based on other scenarios of “not giving full information” because OP grew up with lots taboo subjects. That said I really appreciate you said that because it’s definitely something to look out for especially when men get in that 29-35 range and they are on a look out for the settlement.


MikkiTh

It is very red flaggy to me too


GrapeSoda223

This is the answer


Blue-Being22

I love your loving kindness. I think my heart grew three sizes just by reading this. ♥️♥️♥️


hrmdrmn

Seeing all the comments, I guess the cultural difference is real. Heck I'll probably act the same way as OP, salary is a sensitive topic due to many women being taken advantage of by irresponsible husband after they're married. If my imaginary boyfriend answers like OP did, I'm satisfied enough.


mcclgwe

Brilliant. The relationship as is does not seem to warrant this trust.


frutisnacc

This is one of the most beautiful things I’ve ever read


MadameMimmm

Great comment!


kevwelch

This is far to considerable and measured for the internet.


Artistic_Society4969

This needs to be top comment. I am not from a culture where these conversations are taboo (except for with your co-workers) but this response is measured, kind, thoughtful, and so very compassionate. Bravo. u/GTS_2, best of luck to you. I hope you are able to figure it all out.


MannyMoSTL

u/MsHarma123: what is a 1.5 gen immigrant?


msharma123

I was born in another country but came here when I was 5! Usually it’s any time between 0-12 yrs is considered that. They usually have very different experiences than a first or second gen immigrant. We feel we have to honor our motherland and yet are learning and growing from our American peers. Took me a while to understand why I felt fish out of water so much growing up.


incelhating-hotgirl

best comment in the thread


nebuchadnezzar03

This needs to be higher up.


AUDMCJSW

If you’re not ready to share then you aren’t ready to get married and your boyfriend needs to move on. In serious long term relationships, “taboo” topics are no longer taboo. Which includes sex, finances, religion, future children, and anything else you may feel uncomfortable to talk about. Your partner should know every thing about you. There shouldn’t be any shame in that. When you get married, many things can be combined, and he wants to make sure he’s not making a huge mistake. My brother failed to ask his girlfriend how much she made after they already moved in together and had a baby together, and he found himself paying for everything (house bills, baby bills, HER nails/hair, his own upkeep, both cars). While she gave all her money to her mother. That’s not fair for him and the baby they made together. Your boyfriends trying not to make a mistake. Either tell him, or get ready to be single. YTA


orangesnsfwaccount

The sentence abt the taboo stuff is so on the mark. You got it perfectly.


dukekaboom69

YTA, with engagement on the cards I'll assume that you guys are in a long term relationship so he deserves to know. Relationship is a 2 way thing, and even though you didn't ask his income, he voluntarily told you his because he expects you to be together in the long term


AutisticMuffin97

When getting married and proposals and what-not finances are a key topic you need to have a conversation about. It’s the second leading cause for a divorce. Knowing how much you make even though he makes more than you, it will let him know how well you handle money. It’s a fact. Money determines everything in your lifestyle. If you aren’t able to share that topic with the man who plans to propose you aren’t ready for that type of commitment or he isn’t the one for you.


chantillylace9

I always found it interesting that my Jewish friends had counseling and financial counseling that was required through their church prior to getting married. They even had some sort of genetic testing to make sure that their babies would not have certain medical issues that were prevalent amongst the Jewish community. I thought going over each other‘s debt and credit reports was actually very smart because, like you said, money is such a big factor in so many divorces. I am an attorney who has a lot of clients who are in debt and so many of them lie to their spouses and I have notes in their files that I cannot tell anyone in the family when I’m calling because no one knows about the debt, including their spouses. I had at 80 year old women say that their spouse of 60 years would literally divorce her if he found out about her debt. It’s really sad.


JohnButinski

Catholic weddings too. You have to do this thing called pre-canaan where (along with listening to natural family planning propaganda) you have to talk about debt, about how much you make, about your expectations for work and money, etc. they include other things like counseling about your relationship with your family, conflict resolution, etc. it was actually really helpful. Lol


MidoriTwist

I completely agree with you on the marriage prep. My husband (not Catholic) sat next to me during the part where they go on about natural family planning and could not believe the topic of the conversation lol. I'm like .. smile and nod dear, we're still going to use condoms 🤣 The rest of the prep was good, though!


Smgt90

The natural planning thing is ridiculous. Other than that, I agree with the rest of the topics.


matthewsmugmanager

* pre-Cana (the wedding at Cana that Jesus attended)


AlanFromRochester

TIL Catholic wedding prep is named after where Jesus went to a wedding ... I had thought it was etymologically related to carnal knowledge


matthewsmugmanager

You thought Catholics would mention sex in a wedding prep class?


AlanFromRochester

some people who believe in limiting sex to marriage embrace it within marriage, and Catholic marriage theology emphasizes reproduction


matthewsmugmanager

I was making a joke. I was raised Catholic.


HistoricalQuail

>I always found it interesting that my Jewish friends had counseling and financial counseling that was required through their *church* prior to getting married. FYI the appropriate term is synagogue. :)


chantillylace9

Yes, thank you!!! I was having a blonde moment!!!


AutisticMuffin97

As a Jew myself we are always prepared with this information prior to ensure there are absolutely no problems in the future! It’s honestly just good sense to be upfront. The more you tiptoe around the subject the more damaging it can be later on


GTS_2

I understand


Jealous_Resort_8198

When my husband started talking about getting marred, we told everything about money. We did not want surprises or unrealistic expectations. Got to have that trust.


Charl3y1991

YTA. This isn’t a case of being a month down the line and not knowing each other properly. This is a substantial relationship which has the potential to be moved to another level with a proposal. In order to ensure marriage is the right thing for you both, his questions are valid. Trust is an important aspect to a relationship and without it there are no stable foundations to continue to build on. He’s not asking for all your money. He’s not even asking you to join your finances. He’s asking what you make to ensure you can both live a comfortable life together. Something I would want to know before committing my life to another. I sincerely hope he sees this red flag for what it is and retracts any idea of proposing and retreats in the opposite direction.


kschin1

I agree entirely. Finance is something that should be talked about because it is one of the foundations for a couple’s future together. My boyfriend and I live together and pay rent, furniture, household items, and groceries together. We budget together for savings, housing goals, and trips. But we don’t dictate each other’s spending and we don’t look into each other’s bank accounts. We trust each other. We decided we knew each other’s spending lifestyle and talked about debts BEFORE living together.


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Whole_Mechanic_8143

YTA - you're telling him you don't trust him even though you're getting engaged. He's being open with you about his finances according to your post but you're refusing to reciprocate. Assuming marriage is going to be the next step, knowing what both of you are bringing to the table is the first step in discussing what future housing and other living expenses will look like and how it's going to be paid. Are you expecting him to "keep" you once you are married? If not, since he makes significantly more than you, are you expecting him to live within the budget you are comfortable with, and what is that budget going to be like? If you can't trust him to know your finances why are you even considering taking the relationship further?


MellRox013

IDK why this is the hill you want to die on. It seems like you have some kind of secret you don't want him to find out or, like others have said, you don't plan on contributing to the household and think he should keep you. Either way, you're acting really shifty.


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Old_Management701

If you're going 2 get engaged why not tell him Forgot to tell you YTA


i_rabban

Lol YTA, in your logic it's fine to find some basic truth about your SO AFTER you married... That's wrong, you first know someone and decide if you are compatible enough to go more serious way.


KrissAdachi

this! People get married after they are sure they are secure enough and on the same level. If you get married before than a lot of problems start to show up and divorce will be breathing on your neck


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lordmwahaha

At this point I honestly hope he calls off the engagement. For me it's a very worrying red flag that OP is acting this way. Either they have something to hide, or they don't really understand how marriage works and that it's *not* a magic button that changes things. Either way, he should not marry them.


Powerofboners

OP has no idea how relationships work. She has stated many times that she will be more open once married which makes no sense. Marriage isn’t a fucking switch, it’s like we’re peering into the mind of 14 year old and their idea of relationships


Vioret

lol welcome to all of reddit


im_mawsillion

YTA not ready to get married


ace_krusher

Soft YTA. Finances are right up there why relationships fail, because it’s not discussed properly. Yes you might have given a range, but a range can mean the difference between one rental or the next, or how much you both can put aside to buy or save for instance. It’s an important thing that you can be open about this as a precursor to marriage. My husband and I talked about finances before we got married - and we discussed a split of how we would pay our bills, what our financial goals are etc. It was also a trust issue that we both revealed how much we made. If you’ve already given a small range, what’s wrong at just revealing how much you make?


[deleted]

I agree! I make a lot more money than my husband. Money does not define the depth of your love for each other but can certainly erode it. It seems like OP has a bit of hard thinking and growing up to do


Isabela_Grace

YTA.. salaries being “taboo” only benefits employers. Share that shit with all your coworkers also. It helps you leverage better salaries. Sometimes new hires get 10, 20, 30 percent more. You’d never know. You’re an employers dream. Keep pretending your salary is private. It doesn’t matter. 100% don’t get married, though. Your BF can’t see it but it would be a huge mistake. You’ve got mega walls up.


Western_Patience1119

Seriously. I wish we could find ops bf and show him this shit show.


Rufert

I've considered getting a banner made to hang above my desk that has "I make $________ per year." Where I can stick/hang numbers to update my salary as it changes.


venus_4938

YTA. Salaries are not secrets. Many are public knowledge. He could go online and figure it out if he wanted to. It’s not about the exact numbers, saying “I make like 40k” when you make $39,650 is fine. You think trust comes after engagement, he thinks it comes before. I’m on his side. Why should he buy a ring when you’re not in it for the long haul? We can start a salary sharing train. I make like 56k.


lordmwahaha

I'll share. I make around 25 - 27K in a good year. It's been less the last two years, because of covid and study. I think my last paycheck actually said 17K this year, which makes it really impressive that I'm still managing to put money away in savings - because that's actually way worse than I thought. I still thought I was making over 20K, but I guess not. On the plus side, I'm done with school now, so I get to pick up an extra shift and start making that back. I'm also getting a raise soon that'll end up being like 40 bucks a week, so that helps. I have *also* learned that I can survive on 17K a year if I need to, which is good to know.


Striker101254

4k


wellz-or-hellz

YTA, you’re potentially getting married to him. You should share your salary so that y’all can financially plan together.


fruhest

I disclose my exact salary to anyone asking; coworkers, friends, DEFINETLY my partner. How much you make isn't a secret, hush-hush thing. The only ones gaining anything from workers not disclosing their salaries are the bosses who can keep underpaying us. It's super awkward that you intend to marry this man but want to keep your salary a secret until you're "past the point of no return". WHY do you feel like this is the hill to die on? Why not just tell him? Are you not already in a committed, long-term relationship? A ring doesn't change anything about that. YTA


Pizza-love

>I disclose my exact salary to anyone asking; coworkers, I can't... Since it is not normal in my country and gives a lot of trouble. Yep, most of us here believe this should be private and believe the lie that it benefits you. So for now, it is only gonna bite me. I'm extremely open for my country by discussing this with friends.


ReticXPython

YTA If you're in a close enough relationship where marriage is on the table, then why is sharing your wage such a hard thing to do? You have not been able to explain yourself on that other than saying "That's private" it's something that is going to be very important if you're going to be married.


Fearless-Fruit-5048

YTA, what is wrong with telling him how much you make? I really don’t understand why you are making this a big deal


ertrinken

Exactly. OP has blown this way out of proportion and I’m willing to bet that the 5k range she gave her boyfriend is only not good enough for him because he’s exasperated over having to play 20 questions over something so simple.


ash894

I think I’m understanding right by saying you view engagement very differently to everyone else on this thread. Most people in the culture you are asking for advice on view an engagement as coming after you have built the trust up and become comfortable and trusting enough to talk about most things. Mostly after you’ve lived together for at least a period of time. I live that life and granted do keep somethings to myself but not my pay check. Saying that we work for the same organisation and have set pay for each year you work/what level you’re at so it’s different to your situation. You don’t seem to be taking on/listening to any views here. Maybe find a sub to ask that is slightly more familiar to your situation? Because to have your views on engagement is very unusual and fairly unheard of on here and you’ll benefit from it. I think YTA and that’s partly because you don’t seem to be able to take feedback and have come on here without intending to listen.


bradp1234

YTA this is the weirdest hill to die on, and you should honestly tell everyone your salary. the whole concept of keeping salaries private benefits no one but your employer, and it’s really weird you want to sacrifice your relationship for it. EDIT: Sorry for being mean i’ll take that part out but I’m serious about the transparency thing! Salaries should not be a stigma no matter how large or small, and if more people were open about their salaries it would simply be better and easier for workers to find their real market value, which is often higher for many people. Gives more power to labor, and I encourage you to discuss your pay with your coworkers and make sure everyone is being compensated fairly. Sharing with your potential husband is a must obviously because of this.


ludicrousl

MORE INFO: How long have you been together?


JudgeJed100

Honestly given the pair and your replies, it just doesn’t seem like you two are compatible and you should probably break up


RevolutionaryTale245

YTA. You seem somewhat flippant about the situation. Maybe you're not invested enough in this relationship.


Stock-Explanation635

Yes, YTA. One of the biggest problems in marriages is finances. You do not seem emotionally ready to commit to marriage, and are arguing in the comments about not providing your income. A person should know the entire financial outlook of their partner if they are deciding to propose and get married. Giving them ballpark figures or ranges is not being upfront about the finances. If it was a boyfriend you were not going to eventually join finances with then no, it wouldn’t have been necessary.


TiniestMoonDD

I absolutely agree. Finances are one of the biggest contributors to divorce. It’s imperative that *before* entering marriage, the couple openly and honestly discusses their wages, their savings, what they see as a comfortable “emergency fund”, what is an essential and what is a luxury, how much they save, how much debt they have, how much debt are they comfortable with, how they handle money, how they wish to spilt the costs of the family unit, do they want to/are they able to buy v rent, the cost of children (if they want them). And none of this is possible without clarity as to wage. I just honest cannot believe someone could ever be so naive as to think this shouldn’t be discussed BEFORE marriage.


Specialist-Leek-6927

I suspect she will be against a pre-nup, but I could be wrong. She's giving vibes of a long con type of gold digger.


Whole_Mechanic_8143

I wouldn't necessarily say gold digger, but definitely the traditional "your money is our money and my money is my money" vibes from when women had only "pin money " as "their money".


Specialist-Leek-6927

I completely agree with you on that.


calling_water

She’s giving me vibes of someone who has a massive cultural hangup and has no intention of trying to overcome it. Saying things like *can’t he tell she’s responsible*, and *once they’re married he’d be able to see the amount in her account*… she really doesn’t want to have to talk about money. She probably wants to restrict what she says to whether or not she can afford certain things. That would make her maddening to plan with. And even if an engagement made her less avoidant, it’d take a long time before he’d know whether the sorts of discussions he wants to have are things she’s capable of. I don’t know how’d they be able to have much of a prenup, other than setting down some clear divisions, because a good prenup will get into financial details. What’s she going to do in the lawyer’s office, say vague things?


Traveling-Techie

YTA - in my experience one of the toughest things for young couples is to learn to work as a team - you’re not there


Specialist-Leek-6927

Yta. And hope one of your next updates is "my bf broke up with me".


RegretOk194

YTA if you are serious enough that you want to be engaged then you should be serious enough to give him a number. Saying I make between 50k to 60k is just being childish at this point. Yes it's a small range but it's a matter of trust. Either you are willing to be financially transparent and merge your life with him or you aren't. It sounds like you aren't and it's a very important thing for a healthy relationship.


airazaneo

YTA - you're not a safe bet to get engaged to if you can't have open and meaningful dialogue about your finances. If you're really talking about marrying, you're taking about tying your finances together and financially investing in your relationship with one another. If you aren't open about your finances, what other secrets are you keeping that could adversely impact the security of that relationship?


Intrigued_Alpaca_93

YTA When trying to think through future budgets you use what you predict your future household income will be. It's very hard to create a good, thought-out budget when one person won't tell you their income. By giving him a range, it means everything will just be so much more complicated to think about. Instead of "the household income will be $300k a year so we'll be able to afford Y" you're making it "the household income will be between $250k and $300k a year so we might be able to afford between X and Y". It's just unnecessarily complicated, stressful and mentally draining when you don't know what your budget is for certain!


Maddie24Kennedy

YTA - Just leave the poor guy so he can move on and find a partner that trusts him.


Specialist-Leek-6927

Maybe your boyfriend wants to know how much you can put aside for a house together and you are literally sabotaging it, he will probably just buy it by himself, not have your on the deed, demand a prenup and you will blame him for not considering you.


rissofthesea

YTA !!! OP in clearly just wanting people to defend them and their weird stance on finances and marriage, and not actually looking for unbiased opinions from people. OP is fighting for their life in the comments and after reading the post a couple times and all of OP's comments I believe I have decoded the strange logic from OP, so here's what I've gathered: 1. dating = no trust, engaged = lil bit of trust if I feel like it, and married = you own my entire soul now here's every single moment and thought I have ever experienced we are now one being, our souls have bonded. 2. culturally finances are taboo so OP doesn't care about what their partner needs in order to feel confident and content in moving forward in the relationship and COMMITTING to becoming ENGAGED TO BE WED! OP's partner doesn't feel comfortable proposing and committing to getting married, to have n to hold, for better n for worse n all that shit FOREVER! how dare he have a boundry in this relationship only OP gets those 3. OP cannot stop defending their actions for more that 5 seconds to even try to empathize with their partner or attempt to view their partners perspective because they have dug their heels in so far and are just worried about defending them self 4. OP gave a range with min-max being $5,000, and OP's actual salary is closer to the max of the range (obviously-OP). OP thinks $5,000 is a tight enough range to budget for the future they would be spending together forever if they got married. OP would rather their partner stress about a multi variable budget with a substantial range that could affect many many things in the budget instead of having a fixed number which would make the math so much easier and make the process of budgeting for an unpredictable future slightly easier. 5. OP would rather wait until marriage to share VITAL information that will affect their relationship (especially will what OP is pulling rn). because as we all know waiting until marriage to share vital information is so cool cause then if that negatively affects your relationship you're already so intertwined that it's sooooooo much easier to end that relationship or work on it /s. it makes 0 sense to discuss major issues prior to promising your lives to eachother! you need to combine every aspect of your lives together before discussing anything that could be a deal-breaker obviously /s 6. OP has equated their relationship with their possible future husband to their relationship with their mother.... no further comment. 7. OP is too immature or just unwilling to have an open and honest conversation with themselves (let alone their partner) about why they are death gripping this idea of finances being so taboo. OP needs to dig deep and have some time to just be introspective and figure out why keeping their salary private is more important to them than their potential future husband. 8. OP claims that this shows their partner doesn't trust them and OP is "hurt" that their partner doesn't trust them and is viewing them "this way", however OP doesn't seem to get that there's a chance that maybe, just maybe, their partner is hurt because OP won't trust them with something that is needed for their future together that he wanted to build together. 9. OP can't take any criticism from the comments and just responds in short defensive sentences, occasionally combining up to 5 of their go to defenses in one comment. 10. IMO OP just is not emotionally mature or ready to get married and might wanna try personal therapy as well as couples therapy prior to getting engaged. Definitely wouldn't get married without a prenup either considering how even discussing finances with no actual consequences is this intense for OP, I would not want to deal with a divorce with OP and no prenup. I wanna say that it doesn't seem like OP is being malicious but at this point the denial and defensiveness as well as feigning ignorance as to why finances should be discussed every time people make the same points over and over (and judge OP YTA over and over), it's giving willful ignorance more than malicious but I'd say it's bordering malicious at this point.


Delicious_Wish8712

YTA. OP you are being very dogmatic. If you are willing to tell him this information once you are engaged but not before but he wants to know so he can decide whether to propose, then you are effectively telling him you do not actually want to get engaged. I get wanting privacy in financial stuff at the beginning of a relationship but once it gets serious it shows a total lack of trust and openness that you refuse to tell him.


PurplePunchy13

YTA and not ready for a serious relationship


cyrano72

YTA finances are one of the most common reasons for divorce. To me it sounds like you are hiding something. Take a moment and Think about how this sounds to an outsider. I trust him enough for sex and marriage but won't tell him about my financials until he's legally bound to me. That's a giant red flag. When my wife and I were at that stage we had the full talk before rings were even bought. How much we make, how much we have in the bank. How to raise kids etc etc. The I do's are the final official part of a marriage not the starting point.


mdewkett

YTA because finances are one of the biggest factors that can break a couple up. He likely wants to know what kind of budget of place you can afford, whether you will need to pay for expenses 50/50 or proportional to income. If you both pay for your own wedding, how much he will be expected to contribute. The total budget monthly you both will have, what trips you can take, etc. some of your comments say that when you’re married, he can just look and check what you make. You withholding this information makes it look like you don’t trust him despite considering spending your life with this man, which I think would upset you too if this were reversed.


calling_water

Her “he’ll be able to look and check” also means she doesn’t really intend to talk about money even then. Forget about having discussions about their family finances — here’s the account, he can look. My guess is that her caginess about her actual salary is an example he’s given about her general avoidance of money talk, and it’s also blocking further money discussions. And it’s a very bad idea to consider marrying someone when you don’t know if you can have healthy and useful discussions about finances with them.


AnotherEeep

I caught that too! She didn’t say that they would sit and have these monetary discussions after they are married. It’s just he could know it if he wanted my looking. Very passive. Makes you wonder if this would be her approach ti other “taboo” topics she’s waiting on for marriage. Will those be discussed? Or only be addressed if they come up? Seems super unhealthy.


Letplaysreddit

You asked reddit whether you are wrong and everyone told you are , but you are still arguing and not understanding a thing. Why ask if you wont take in the responses? Also YTA i wouldve been like N A H or N T A if you were with hime for a month or smthing. He would be stupid to marry someone who wont share their salary to their hopefully future husband.


gabby0197

YTA can’t marry someone and want to hide things as well. If I were him I’d be incredibly suspicious as well. ETA: and you keep arguing with the judgments. So extra YTA.


joyousjulie

YTA if you can’t trust him like a husband then you aren’t ready to get engaged. You have this backward. Finances, children, if parents will live with you are all discussions that should be held before you get engaged. Number one cause of divorce is money. It’s best to have open and honest discussions before you get engaged. If your BF were to come on Reddit and ask if this was a red flag everyone would tell him it was suspicious as hell and to drop you like you were radioactive.


FrostingTechnical118

May be the silliest one of these I’ve read since I’ve been on Reddit. I’ve never heard of someone not willing to share something so simple with their partner. It’s a number. It’s a reasonable question on their end. It’s not like you are sharing your salary with a coworker or a stranger. I wonder why of all things, this is such a big deal to you. I don’t think you are ready to be engaged or married tbh. Best of luck


Jolteon2020

You aren't ready to be in an adult relationship. Let this man go so he can find a better partner that trusts him and respects him. YTA.


Pinkkorn69

NTA. I'm going to go against the grain. I think a range is fine. Too often on here if a girl was asking the questions she'd be getting called a gold digger and that he doesn't need to share that info with her. You gave him a range, as long as it wants 20k to 220k a year then he has the information he needs. To me Financials can be a very private matter. I know a lot of successful couples who don't share exact # on salary and such because they each have their money, pool money for the house but have their own bills they pay. It can work but he also sounds incredibly controlling or insecure.


[deleted]

INFO: Did you already talk about a prenup, and how you two are going to mix finances once you get married? It's 2022. Living together and getting married are very much disconnected, and can happen in a non-traditional order. Mixing finances needs to happen at some level as soon as you move in together, but there is no need to go the traditional 'what yours is mine, what's mine is yours' either. You need to figure out together what you want. While you're at it, figure out if, and when, you want kids, if moving for a job is on the table, and how you both feel about the other buying real estate without (financial) input from the other.


External_Wash9040

This sounds more like a business deal than a relationship!


No_Ad_7014

very weird behavior on your part. examine your beliefs. yta


Temporary-Outcome704

YTA If you don't trust him just end it already. Marriage won't bring you closer like you seem to believe. You know what brings you closer is open and honest communication. Financials are ridiculously important when it comes to relationships, sad? Probably but it's true. You don't seem to have a rational reason to keep the information hidden. Other than you don't actually see this relationship lasting. If you want him as a bang buddy that's fine as long as you tell him, and he is okay with that. You will never be closer without opening up and letting your guard down. If you are hiding this information, I'm betting you are hiding even more important stuff that a partner should know before getting married.


SnooPineapples6676

FWIW- I would highly advise my sons to not even consider marriage until these type of conversations had occurred. From a future MIL’s perspective, you are not ready for a commitment like marriage. You will be having far more intimate discussions as you go through life. NTA, but also not ready for a serious relationship (and that is okay). Just please don’t think your BF is prying. He wants to share his life with you and I think he is smart (not mean or manipulative) to walk away until you are ready.


BitzLeon

YTA. He wants to marry you, and you can't even share how much you make? Sounds like you have some stuff to figure out about yourself.


kiiefprincess

Honestly bro, don’t accept a proposal of someone who you don’t want to tell these kinds of things to. There’s a reason you don’t want to tell him, and withholding such information from someone kinda means you aren’t ready for that step. I would also consider why you’re in this relationship.


signechan

YTA When you're married to someone, your finances are their business. You're talking about going into something with this man that is not only a large social commitment, to be each others family, but a large financial commitment. You're presumably going to want to buy a house together eventually. You may well want children, or pets, or vacations. Sadly, under capitalism, the scope of the joint life you can lead will be determined by your finances. So you, before you decide to make this large commitment to reach other you should have a lot of difficult financial conversions and be fully aware not just of where you are now financially but your financial goals for the future, how you're going to manage your money going forward, what you're going to do if you disagree about something financial (say, a large non-essentiap purchase), how you're going to manage large shared expenses etc. This is the kind of stuff you need to hash out before you agree to marry someone. If you can't even trust this man enough to tell him how much you're earning, why are you considering marrying him?


JakHammer9

YTA if you can’t simply share with him your income, you aren’t ready to be married and have your life and finances intertwined with him.


completedett

YTA


goonmods_

Yta , this man is ready to take a big step with you . Trust is everything , from a man’s point of view , you’re being shady


[deleted]

YTA - OP is not ready to be married. Most blokes I know get ripped to shreds if their GF doesn’t know how much they make. You are being dodgy and talking about “verify” tactical and transactional. If your relationship is at the stage for an engagement and you are picking this hill to die on. Say no to the proposal.


EvilFinch

NTA I don't understand why he makes such a big deal out of it and use the "you don't trust me"-card. But if she has this bounderie for whatever reason, why not accept it? He knows her income in round terms, why does he needs the exact amount? That he tries to guilt-trip her to break her only bounderie... As if he actually doesn't really want to know the income, but is buttheart that she makes a secret out of it.


Fairymutha

If you aren't willing to share basic info then you are not ready to share a life with this person. That's your prerogative, but you'll be TA if you keep leading this guy on.


myself_again33

I’m concerned that he wants to know how much money you make so that he can control how much you get after your finances are joined. I would think twice before marrying him.


daloman

NTA. I am concerned that BF needs to know how much money you have, how much you make before making a decision about marriage. Been married for years but, have never asked my wife how much she makes or how much she has or how much she paid for something. I was raised in a culture where such questions were considered bad manners. To get back to my original comment I ask why does he think this is so important? Does this tell you that he loves you but only if you make enough money?


eriured

NTA you have picked up on him having a fixation on money and not having good boundaries about it. He's told you multiple times exactly how much he makes in a bragging way when you didn't ask. He wasn't ok with being told the range of pay you are in. That you are debt free and working on building savings should be more important than knowing a specific income number. My guess is that if you told him, he would tell everyone he knows what you make and how much more he makes than you. And if you stay together, he will always use his higher income as a way to harass and embrace you. You two aren't a good fit.


[deleted]

NAH. This is part of negotiating the boundaries or your relationship. I do think you need to be open and honest if you want the relationship to progress past this point though. And I also think you are turning this issue into something much bigger then its needs to be. But the way he is reacting isn't helping either. You are both convinced that you are 'right' and trying to force the other person to do as you want, getting angry when the other won't agree, when it is clear neither of you are ready to compromise. You guys would benefit greatly from some couples counselling. So you can learn how to communicate with each other better, and get better insight into these issues as a whole. IMO, everyone who is considering getting engaged or married would benefit for couples counselling, even if they don't think they have any issues.


MariContrary

Absolutely NTA, because you're not even engaged yet. If you were at the point of discussing a life together and going through all the details, then you should tell him. But dating? Fuck no. A reasonable range and knowing you have no debt is more than sufficient. Full disclosure is very important when you're both at the point of considering marriage, but not before.


emmyjxx

NTA. He doesn’t need to know how much you’re making down to the cent. If you have no debt, are saving and provided a range that should be more than adequate. He sounds potentially controlling.


trfkah

There are a couple of issues here. Your BF see's your lifestyle and has a sense of your compensation and can't figure out how you do it. He wants to understand your debt and get a big picture of what your total finances will look like. You, have some underlying issue with your BF that you don't want to share that information. Today, there are a lot of couples that want to know what debt if any that they will be responsible for if they marry.


Historical-Limit8438

My fiancé and I didn’t share our financial information until we’d been living together 2 years. I knew a rough ballpark and that was enough. I’m not with him for money.


peanutandbaileysmama

Soft YTA. if you're not ready to discuss finances with someone who is planning on spending the rest of their lives with you, then you're not ready for that commitment. Finances is a big thing with marriage and futures. There should be no surprises but there also has to be realistic expectations as well. I mean you're 24 and fresh out of college during a pandemic and potential recession. >I say he doesn’t actually know me and maybe he should use his critical thinking skills and look at all the time we spent together and conclude whether I am actually responsible with my money or not. This statement here- you need to understand that it goes deeper than that. He's wanting to know now that you're out of college what is your future plan? Like are you staying where you currently at? Are you expecting to become a SHAM when having kids? Do you use credit cards? Do you owe on student loans? Are you willing to finance things together? I mean It goes much deeper than "how much money do you make?"


Thenedslittlegirl

Op if you're unwilling to tell someone you're in a relationship with what you earn, you shouldn't think about marrying them.


dreamer0303

He’s right, this is necessary stuff to discuss openly for marriage. YTA


XOXODanteXOXO

YTA. If you aren't comfortable telling him your finances why are you even considering marriage? Like seriously.


Maleficent_Cap8218

YTA. If you can’t have an honest conversation about how much you make with someone you are going to marry then you aren’t ready to be married. Money is a huge decision in marriage and requires communication.


[deleted]

YTA Why hide basic info like your salary? Critical thinking has nothing to do with it. You could be hiding debt,etc. the best way to alleviate his concerns is to be open and not try to hide information. When your married would you still hide things?


texaskittyqueen

If you don’t feel comfortable talking exacts with someone you’re considering marrying, you shouldn’t marry them. YTA.


alpacaboba

YTA if you are on the verge of engagement and want to marry without being open. It is fine not to be comfortable enough with someone to share the info. But then you are not ready to marry. Marriage is not just about love. It is also a contract between two people to live their lives together. Go in with good and open communication or don’t marry until you are ready to disclose. To say you are ready and then not communicate will only hurt your partnership in the long run.


folklore_5847

Oh god!! YTA. Do you not trust him? Bc if so then shut down all prospects of marriage right now. How thick are you to think it’s alright not to tell your partner how much you’re making if you’re thinking of getting engaged? Bruh


Ok_Cheetah_3609

I agree with the boyfriend. As a couple you need to know how much money your bringing in together. This affects what kind of housing you can afford, childcare options in the future, and many other things. I would be very skeptical if my SO didn’t share there financials with me if we were at the point of engagement. I would definitely think they were hiding something. I can’t think of any good reason why you wouldn’t just tell him. YTA


Ondidine

YTA, you're supposed to get married BECAUSE you trust someone, not trust someone because you are married.


DaSnowflake

YTA. At best you are too immature to get married. At worst you need therapy for this weird ass hill you are choosing.


MyLilPiglets

I'm going to go with YTA instead of my original N-A-H. Growing up, talking about and disclosing how much you make *was* considered a private thing. Now it seems to be a requirement, and while at times it makes me personally uncomfortable, I have to look at who is asking and the circumstances. And it's this where you are digging your heels in. Your reasons of culture is not strong enough. And neither is saying this is how you've always been, because something so ingrained will not change overnight with marriage. Surely there's love but you don't mention it. Accept you could be wrong and talk to him.


swiggitysquid

Without any malice, YTA. He has every right to want to get his ducks in a row before marriage, and if you’re hesitant to share your income with him, i understand how he could see that as a red flag


deeohdeegeeee

I wouldn’t say YTA per se, but I do not think you should marry this person, and I do not think he should want to marry you anymore. The fact that you don’t want to share this info should be a red flag for both of you. Is there a reason you don’t trust *him* with this information? Do you not want to marry *him*? Or would you behave similarly with any potential husband? Is there a situation in your life that is prompting this lack of trust, ie was your mom, sister, aunt, etc burned by a man wrt finances? If you do want to marry this person, I recommend pre-marriage counseling, which will likely involve frank discussions about money incl how much you make. NAH yet.


DanteShmivvels

YTA. You are creating unnecessary drama by hiding how much you make, not even for any good reason. Do the man a favour and let him go to someone who shares his values because you obviously don't


Damn_el_Torpedoes

Red flags here. You're listening to your gut, and it's telling you not to trust him with this information...so don't. How would you feel if he proposed? How is the rest of your relationship? These are all things you get to decide. NTA


[deleted]

NTA. Giving him a range and basic idea is enough. He doesn’t need to know the specific dollar amount and getting angry is ridiculous. My fiancé and I have separate accounts and are aware of about how much the other makes. More important is knowing that the split bills are taken care of every month and that we can afford our lifestyle. Me not knowing his exact amount and him not knowing mine makes 0 difference. Our bills are paid and we have enough to do as we please.


MaxxFitz76

Gently, YTA. The problem is you're on two different wavelengths, and I think that has a lot to do with your culture. I'm not making any assumptions about your culture in general, but this one aspect is presenting as very toxic. You view engagement as the point where you discern if your relationship works and if you want to continue. As someone who has been married for a decade, including a brief separation and reconciliation, you're wrong. And I'm sorry you were taught that way, but you need to really sit down and think things through critically and objectively, without your or his culture dictating it. Engagement is not the point where you start asking questions about your relationship. It's the point where you've answered those questions and determined that you are ready to be legally entangled. Engagement isn't about figuring out if you are compatible. It's preparing for marriage. It's the point where you say "we're financially compatible, so let's set up our marriage." It's when you know what you want your marriage to look like, so you start shaping it. How can you do that if you don't know things like financials? I encourage you to take some time and figure out everything you would need to know about your husband to have a happy marriage, then understand you need to know those things BEFORE agreeing to be married.


BlueMoon5k

NAH. Finances can be a serious topic. You two need more than /Reddit . You need a trusted third party to help you through this .


Daffy666

Nta. Some people don't like to share about finances and you are solvent and not in debt which is fine.and you gave him a rough range.


Cool_Cartographer_33

NTA especially now, people need their own private finances, uncontrolled by men, for private emergencies like repro rights and exiting abusive situations.


Soft-Mousse-1000

NTA- are you sure you want to be with him?


[deleted]

You can’t marry someone you’re unwilling to disclose your income to. Has he seen you naked yet? But seriously. Marriage will involve a lot of discussion about shared finances. Some of it will seem weird. How much does he spend on hobbies? You paid what for those shoes? Those conversations will be more personal than the base salary talk. The most common causes of strife in marriage are sex and money.


txlady100

If you want to marry him soonish then it’s fair to share that data. A spouse has the right to know. If you don’t want to marry him soon or ever, seems like this is your way of showing without saying. I suggest a heart to heart sit down with bf. A soft ESH since he’s being dramatic.


RhubarbSilly5734

Sorry, YTA. He is being realistic and mature. You need to really ask yourself why you don't want to share this information with someone who you intend to spend eternity with.


SUPER11X

YTA. Do you not want this relationship to get more serious? Why are you uncomfortable sharing specifics?


NoAd7400

I don’t think either of you are AH’s. I do think you are not ready to be married if you cannot openly discuss finances. Do you want to guess what is the #1 reason for divorce in the US?


Both_Cartographer831

YTA. Why would he want to legally tie himself to someone without knowing their financial situation. You don’t sound ready to be married to anyone


Anthroman78

NAH, I don't think your the AH, but If you can't openly discuss your financial situation, including how much you make, you shouldn't get married.


Portugee_D

I’d say you’re more of the AH than he is but him walking away upset isn’t the right answer. Marriage is a huge commitment and I’ve seen marriages fall apart due to hiding money. My wife and I know exactly how much each other make hourly and commission and always have known since we started dating as teenagers. We have a very secure joint savings account as well as our own personal accounts and don’t live paycheck to paycheck but we still text each other what our paychecks will look like every month once we know. Why are you against telling him? He’s older, works in tech (so I’m assuming also college educated), and seems to respect your culture. I’m married to my best friend and we don’t have any secrets, my best advice to you is to not have any secrets with your boyfriend before you agree to marry each other.


leedlelamp913

Not sure why you’re baffled. I wouldn’t want to marry someone who is so guarded about something so trivial. YTA


yayayubsea

Info: why don’t you feel comfortable telling your future spouse how much you make….


JakeArmitage

I think it is better to talk about finances before a marriage as compared to after, you both need to know what kind of bagage and spending habits the other person has. This a very un-sexy discussion to have before proposing but it is completely necessary. I actually think that you should share this information with him, it is not as if you are giving him your codes or your account numbers. It has nothing to do with the fact that he makes more and you less, you should ideally have the same discussion no matter what both parties make. Do you expect to live together while being completely separated economically? That will never work. He should not have become angry but rather talked it over with you. Still, you are more in the wrong for categorically refusing. YTA


Friendly_Tangelo1197

Sounds like he doesn’t need to be thinking about proposing then.


disruptionisbliss

YTA I don't see how one person can be thinking about marrying someone but won't tell them, in DETAIL, about their finances. When married, in the US at least, you are financially tied to your spouse, it's like a contract. For that reason, your spouse/partner needs to know everything about you financially. If you don't feel you trust him enough to tell him, then you don't trust him enough to marry him. Maybe he's moving too fast for you?


ziptagg

Why don’t you want to tell him the number?


Creative_Trick_3818

YTA


cassowary32

INFO: How wide a range did you give him? It's really odd that you are interested in marrying this person but can't trust him with your salary. Do you think he'll judge you for the size of your paycheck? If the real number is unacceptable to him, isn't that a sign that you aren't compatible and it's best to end this relationship? If you think he's someone who'll think less of you because of what you earn, you need to ask why this is someone you want to be with. Also, you just graduated. It would be unusual to be well established financially at this point.


First-Butterscotch-3

Yta - getting engaged is a commitment to sharing a future, if you can't share important details such as earnings without playing games around it he is better off to cut his losses and move on - you are not responsible or mature enough to consider marriage yet