It really depends on the firm. The bigger the firm, the more likely you are to be limited to performing structural calculations. Interview at smaller building design firms, ask a lot of questions about the type of work, responsibilities, and opportunities for growth. You should be able to find what you described.
Agreed. I work for a smaller company, and our project engineers do everything to take a project from initial schematic design all the way through construction. Unless it is an enormous project, typically it's the one project engineer's responsibility (along with the project manager and engineer of record).
I’m the leader of a structural group at an architectural firm. The vast majority of the time I’m working with the architect from the very beginning of the project.
As far as calculations go, you’ll definitely have to do them. But you also get to be involved in laying out the project from the beginning. I enjoy it a lot.
That sounds good! I dont have any problem with doing calculations, I think the design proces is not complete without them. Its just that I want to do more than just that. I want to be involved in the design proces as well
If you know of some people doing what you want to do, try and develop a relationship with them as a mentor. They can tell you how they got to where they are and maybe even help plug you in to the opportunities that fit your goals.
I’m sure your commutation skills are on point but let me know if you want a few tips on how to reach out to professionals as a potential mentee.
Let me see if I can summarize this right. You want to do structures, but you don't want to do calculations. Also you don't want to be a project manager. Basically you want to sit around and draw pretty pictures and only think "big picture" and decide how everyone else will do the work without actually having to do anything. And also without managing the project. We call those architects around here, sis. Or drafters I really can't figure out what you expect. Potentially marketing? I know a few marketing guys that pitch ideas to clients without actually dealing with the projects. They've all got 30 years of design experience or so, though.
Truthfully I'm confused by your post and how you expect to be a "structural designer" and make "complex details" without doing calculations. I make complex details all the time, and they generally come attached to large complex calc packages. Ideas are useless if you can't prove it works.
Concept design is also only like 10% of final design. And frequently involves calculations as well. I'm about to run a conceptual beam design for our TS&Ls because we're not sure if the smaller option can span far enough. In the infrastructure world concept design is usually just being done by the PM/EOR or one of the senior engineers. The same senior engineers who will also oversee and/or complete the calculations on final designs or manage the project. Both tasks you don't want to do. Unless the bridge has a major architectural component, but then we loop in an architect. And then frequently have to run preliminary calcs to prove to the architect his idea will or won't work.
Whats so funny? What I meant by that is that I did internships/ work at pretty much every field I could end up at from Building Engineering. Construction sites, Architectural firms, Structural Engineering companies, even the municipality.
Done everything = oriented myself for potential jobs
Well done, hope you land your dream job. Still that guys post was funny. Not mutually exclusive cases.
Also deflating your head might also be helpful in general.
I never said that I know everything, all that I meant by that is that during those internships/jobs, I found out that those are not the fields I want to work in after my studies (architecture, constructing firms etc). My Bachelor would normally take 4 years, but I did an optional year extra of internships to get a better understanding of this. Of course, 20 weeks is not enough to get a full and complete view of a field. But I think this did help me enough as a student who first did Building Engineering to know for sure that Structural Engineering & Design is what I want.
I have only worked at larger firms though. I think thats what gave me an incomplete view of what the job of a Structural Engineer/Designer can consist of. Where I worked, these roles were very seperated and I did not like that.
Seriously how mad are you? English is my third language, I’m sorry that I didnt specify what I meant completely in the right form in the post. Lol.
The only thing I meant with “I’ve done everything” is that I did internships/work at all fields for Building Engineering. Idk how it works in the US but this is a very normal thing to do here. It helps you to ensure your carreer choices. Whats so had about that?
At 23 I hadn't even graduated from my postgraduate studis, if you have already done everything, you are already a structural designer/engineer/harry potter
I dont think you understood me, AT ALL. I dont need you to explain to me that a Structural Designer does more than 'sit around and draw pretty pictures'. I'm very aware that a Structural Designer makes calculations and manages projects. Its just that I want my job to consists of MORE than just that. I enjoy doing calculations and find it a very important part of the design proces.
Maybe my post isnt worded well enough in English, but here in The Netherlands there is a clear difference between someone who is ''just'' a Structural Engineer, and someone who is a Structural Designer. A Structural Engineer the way I know it is someone who makes calculations and technical details, but does not design the structure as whole.
The role of a Structural Designer the way I described it is not just something I came up with, I know people who have this role.
Every firm operates a bit differently. At my firm (USA, largest firm in our small market) each engineer operates a lot like you describe. We all engineer and pretty much draw all of our own projects. We are the ones coordinating with the architects, mechanicals, etc. to come up with the details that work for everyone. The calculations are honestly a small part of the job. A lot of the work is finding solutions to structural problems and arriving at solutions that work both structurally and for the architectural client. It's a bit of an art. We are essentially a 15 person shop of individuals. Most projects are small enough in scope that one engineer handles everything from concept, to design, to modeling/detailing. It is not the way that every firm operates, but we all handle our own clients and projects and have collogues to bounce ideas and solutions off of. There is no hard line between drafter and engineer. I feel like firms that operate in that way are going by the wayside.
Its just the way we operate. I have my M.S. in structures and it's just the job I fell into. No real path leads you to places like this. You really need to be looking at specific firms rather than worrying about the studies. Finish your education and take a really hard look at the firms that are out there. You need to be choosy about where you work and what you are looking for. I find that we are rare in this little world we operate in. We are certainly not the norm in this industry. Stay away from big firms if that is what you are looking for. All about where you land more than what you know.
The job you are imagining is structural engineering as the poster described. I don't know what this is on Holland, but there isno structural designer role.
Why is it so hard for you to believe that the world doesnt revolve around the US? Other countries can have different names for things. Where I live there is a difference between someone who gets called a “Structural Engineer” and “Structural Designer”. This difference not being a thing in the US doesnt mean that it doesnt exist somewhere else in the world.
I worked in UK and am from Europe.
When I was an engineer in UK, there is no structural designer license. I also workerd at arup and buro happold.
CEng or IStructE in UK which is similar to US but more experience based and less intensive or exam based to the US which probably has the hardest license in the world to become a structural engoneer.
Your "structural designer" license seems to be very specific to Netherlands, and doesn't exist out of netwhrlsnds.
Just my 2c
You seem to be very bothered by it, but I’m really not sure how else to describe it to you without directly translating the terms to “Constructief Ontwerper” (Structural Designer) and “Constructeur” (Structural Engineer).
To put it simply: every “Constructief Ontwerper” is a “Constructeur”, but not every “Constructeur” is a “Constructief Ontwerper”
Ok.
You accused me of saying the world revolves around US assuming I'm not wordly wise enough.
Structural engineers by nature are generally worldly wise by Nature as we have to be for our profession.
Maybe designers can be more lazie faire. I find it odd you can be a structural engineer before a designer in the Netherlands, but hey, every country is different.
You obviously know so much about the titles in the Netherlands, you should know how to go about being a structural designer there. I think you have got a good range of responses and are mature enough now to go your own way based on them.
You don’t need to do “calculations” your whole life. However, if you want to be successful you need to be able to follow the “calculations” other makes. My tip to someone who’s still in university is not to plan 10-15 years ahead, but focus on the part you find most interesting and land a job within that area. From there new opportunities that you didn’t think of when you were studying will open up. If you are somewhat ambitious I would recommend going for the “hardcore calculations” part of whatever area you want to work in and you’ll have a lot of options after that. In oil and gas where I work that often means the engineering consulting firms that the majors and equipment suppliers use for support on challenging projects.
Exactly well put, I feel more and more we engineers are less respected when "it will work' comes from someone who doesn't do the calcs to prove it works or doesnt have to be the EOR
You asked how do you become a structural designer.
You are 23.
I think most of the posts here are syaing, a structural designer is basically an entry level position and you are already one.
Nope, you didnt read my post. At the end I clearly state that where I live, you can ONLY become a Structural Designer AFTER being a LICENSED *Structural Engineer* . I get that it might be confusing for you since youre in the US but thats why I cleared that up in my post.
I’m very aware that I have to become a licensed Structural Engineer first. Its just that I want a more broad job where I’m also involved in the entire design proces. Thats what a Structural Designer is, in The Netherlands at least.
All the tasks you mention, seem expected from the role of a structural engineer.
I guess a Netherlands specific sub might help.
Design is inherently a part of engineering.
I don't think a structural designer role you mention exists out of the Netherlands.
From personal experience I've worked on projects with one too many PMs from other disciplines who didn't know how to not overpromise things to the client. One too many roadway PMs promising that "yeah the structural engineers can have that done in a day or two". Motherfucker I have 3 projects already due in a day or two. I'm not even starting on it for at least a week.
Put simply if you're going to be a PM without a design background I can probably replace you with an MBA from a 2 bit university with an accounting background who went back to school when he couldn't hack it at the big 4. And I'll pay him half as much and he'll thank me.
Downvote me all you want. Worked at the US multi national firms on $100 million+ construction designs. We called them document coordinators and project accountants. Generally they were literature majors and accountants who failed the CPA exam and would work for $20/hr. Much cheaper to use for management tasks than the engineering PM at $80 to $100/hr.
I actually had it happen recently where the PM was not an SE and directed us that we could skip steps and the EOR (in a location where the EOR is required to hold an SE license) told him very unpolitely and bluntly that under no circumstances would we be doing what he said or the aforementioned PM could find a new SE to stamp his work.
So the PM isn't really involved much anymore and we do what the SE says.
You're totally right about people not understanding you - and that's probably because you work in very different contexts. The reality is that in school you're given more opportunities to think critically and consider design because that's intriguing (to keep you interested) and produces more creative thinking (which is beneficial regardless of what you end up doing). I speak from an American perspective, so take it with a grain of salt, but it sounds like you want to do the job of what is typically done by two different people: conceptual/schematic design typically done by an architect (or someone similarly familiar with building codes, construction techniques, market viability, etc) and a structural engineer (deal with the complexities that come with more interesting designs).
In the US Structural Designer is just a vague title that means an unlicensed person who performs structural engineering work/tasks. If you're passionate about building design, you could totally continue your education through architecture and take your engineering background into the design studio. Or, as others have pointed out - work in an AE firm so that you have a more intimate working relationship with the architects/designers.
I honestly think its becoming more of a definition problem at this point. I live in The Netherlands, here a Structural Designer is a genuine, licensed title. You cant become one without a valid degree and many years of experience. The job still consists of peforming calculations and managing projects, its just more broad. You also get to be very involved in the design proces from start to finish. Is this not a thing in america?!
In the US you get the title of EIT after passing the FE exam (w/ the engineering degree), then w/ that you can take the PE exam and w/ enough experience you can become a licensed engineer. Structural Designer doesn't really mean anything specific in my experience.
**And you're right, it's totally a context/language barrier leading people to confuse you intentions lol
I guess thats where all the confusion is coming from. Where I live you can only become a Structural Designer when you're already a licensed Structural Engineer. I guess you could see it as a 'bonus'
I've seen structural designer used here in the US for basically an engineer who acts as a structural engineer but cannot be called one as they done have the professional license. You cannot call yourself a civil engineer or structural engineer unless you are licensed.
Yes I understand that for SE designation.
My point is, if you are an EIT or none EiT, firms in US often use project engineer, design engineer etc in lieu of engineer, structural engineer, civil engineer.
If any person uses the title civil engineer or structural engineer without a license it is not allowed.
In fact, you also are supposed to clarify which state you are licensed in, on correspondnece, and if not licensed in that state but are doing business in that state, you cannot use the PE or anything engineer title.
Part of the problem is that our industry is very fragmented. In the early days of building skyscrapers in America you could be an architect that sized structural members. These architects were essentially master builders and understood every facet of design and construction. As time went on, buildings became much more complex and evolved from the mass masonry/ transitional masonry forms. Today, the architect develops the look and form of a building. The architect sets the column grid, develops the program, and decides on the structural system. Modern day structural engineers use various software packages and hand calculations to make the architect’s vision a reality. We use calculations and computer models to generate structural framing plans. The only thing I can think of that comes close to what you are looking for is a firm like ARUP or SOM that employs both architects and engineers. I don’t have first hand experience with them but I imagine there would be more collaboration and involvement in the programming and design of the building by both the architect and the structural engineer.
I know exactly what you mean and this is what I despised most when working at a SE company, large firm. Literally creating calculating machines out of someone, never getting to even have some kind of feel of what the entire project is like. Its kinda sad. THAT is the part of calculating that I dont like. Ofcourse this doesnt apply everywhere but I’ve seen it happen, never want to end up in that position.
Your comment is very helpful, thank you!!
There is no position that gives you the keys to car shortly after graduation. You have to prove you can drive it and drive it well. In all conditions and locales. That’s when you get to do the job you’re asking for… if you’re as capable and quick at downloading info you’ll progress fast enough that it’ll feel like no time. But you sadly don’t get to skip the steps. Part of being great on the design side is found through doing the iterations and seeing what does and doesn’t work.
This can take a decade or two for most folks.
I could’ve written this myself. Similarly, I am a “creative” at heart and almost went to art school over engineering school (sometimes I still wish I had). Find an A/E firm to work for, the smaller the better.
Haha same, I started my studies with the idea of becoming an architect. Quickly switched up to Structural Engineering tho and never regretted that decision
Yes, I also considered transferring to the architecture school at my college partway through freshman year, but decided against it. I like space planning, but grateful I didn’t end up as an architect, drawing details of waterproofing and window frames for ages. 20+ years later, I’m now the only engineer at a very small local suburban architecture group (there are literally 5 people). It’s fun because I get to do architectural layouts and drawings when I’m not busy with engineering stuff. I bring in all of my own engineering work and do those projects from start to finish on my own (which means doing all of the calculations on my own, but also everything else). Honestly, drawing details is the most tedious part of it. It starts out fun, but when you’ve been drawing what feels like the same details, just slightly different, for years on end, it gets boring. I like the stuff where I really have to think out of the box - coming up with solutions to on-site construction problems during Construction Administration is some of the most creative stuff we get to do! Good luck with everything - be patient with your career choices and wait for the right thing!
In the UK there's no structural designer role. But the description of working with the architect is what a structural engineer would do. Some people stay more technical, some more management and some do both.
I think there is a niche for you, that will combine structural engineering with creative designing. Have you heard about parametric engineering? There is a software called Rhino/Grasshopper that will allow you to design structures in a very creative way with Grasshopper. It already became standard and it is known in the industry. Check it out.
Well, I can only give advice from what I know living in the US. If I were in your shoes, I’d look up architecture firms who have their own structural design team. Or ask them who they consult to do their structural engineering work and go there. You may have several options after you do that research.
ETA: Ooooh, and I may have misunderstood you, but yeah just know that you’ll basically never really have a hand in the “design process” in the sense of making things actually *look* different. You’re making the architect’s vision work structurally.
It really depends on the firm. The bigger the firm, the more likely you are to be limited to performing structural calculations. Interview at smaller building design firms, ask a lot of questions about the type of work, responsibilities, and opportunities for growth. You should be able to find what you described.
Agreed. I work for a smaller company, and our project engineers do everything to take a project from initial schematic design all the way through construction. Unless it is an enormous project, typically it's the one project engineer's responsibility (along with the project manager and engineer of record).
I agree. I see it all the time. If you work for a small structural firm you will be doing just about everything.
This is very helpful, thanks!! I have only worked at larger firms so I guess it makes sense that I havent seen many people with this role.
I’m the leader of a structural group at an architectural firm. The vast majority of the time I’m working with the architect from the very beginning of the project. As far as calculations go, you’ll definitely have to do them. But you also get to be involved in laying out the project from the beginning. I enjoy it a lot.
That sounds good! I dont have any problem with doing calculations, I think the design proces is not complete without them. Its just that I want to do more than just that. I want to be involved in the design proces as well
Best chance of that is also to be on a smaller team.
Where I work what you are describing is what structural engineers do. We design the structure for the whole building!
If you know of some people doing what you want to do, try and develop a relationship with them as a mentor. They can tell you how they got to where they are and maybe even help plug you in to the opportunities that fit your goals. I’m sure your commutation skills are on point but let me know if you want a few tips on how to reach out to professionals as a potential mentee.
Let me see if I can summarize this right. You want to do structures, but you don't want to do calculations. Also you don't want to be a project manager. Basically you want to sit around and draw pretty pictures and only think "big picture" and decide how everyone else will do the work without actually having to do anything. And also without managing the project. We call those architects around here, sis. Or drafters I really can't figure out what you expect. Potentially marketing? I know a few marketing guys that pitch ideas to clients without actually dealing with the projects. They've all got 30 years of design experience or so, though. Truthfully I'm confused by your post and how you expect to be a "structural designer" and make "complex details" without doing calculations. I make complex details all the time, and they generally come attached to large complex calc packages. Ideas are useless if you can't prove it works. Concept design is also only like 10% of final design. And frequently involves calculations as well. I'm about to run a conceptual beam design for our TS&Ls because we're not sure if the smaller option can span far enough. In the infrastructure world concept design is usually just being done by the PM/EOR or one of the senior engineers. The same senior engineers who will also oversee and/or complete the calculations on final designs or manage the project. Both tasks you don't want to do. Unless the bridge has a major architectural component, but then we loop in an architect. And then frequently have to run preliminary calcs to prove to the architect his idea will or won't work.
god you made me laugh 😀😀😀
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Whats so funny? What I meant by that is that I did internships/ work at pretty much every field I could end up at from Building Engineering. Construction sites, Architectural firms, Structural Engineering companies, even the municipality. Done everything = oriented myself for potential jobs
Well done, hope you land your dream job. Still that guys post was funny. Not mutually exclusive cases. Also deflating your head might also be helpful in general.
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I never said that I know everything, all that I meant by that is that during those internships/jobs, I found out that those are not the fields I want to work in after my studies (architecture, constructing firms etc). My Bachelor would normally take 4 years, but I did an optional year extra of internships to get a better understanding of this. Of course, 20 weeks is not enough to get a full and complete view of a field. But I think this did help me enough as a student who first did Building Engineering to know for sure that Structural Engineering & Design is what I want. I have only worked at larger firms though. I think thats what gave me an incomplete view of what the job of a Structural Engineer/Designer can consist of. Where I worked, these roles were very seperated and I did not like that.
You said "I've done pretty much everything" at 23
Seriously how mad are you? English is my third language, I’m sorry that I didnt specify what I meant completely in the right form in the post. Lol. The only thing I meant with “I’ve done everything” is that I did internships/work at all fields for Building Engineering. Idk how it works in the US but this is a very normal thing to do here. It helps you to ensure your carreer choices. Whats so had about that?
I'm out, you obviously don't need advice. Good luck.
At 23 I hadn't even graduated from my postgraduate studis, if you have already done everything, you are already a structural designer/engineer/harry potter
I dont think you understood me, AT ALL. I dont need you to explain to me that a Structural Designer does more than 'sit around and draw pretty pictures'. I'm very aware that a Structural Designer makes calculations and manages projects. Its just that I want my job to consists of MORE than just that. I enjoy doing calculations and find it a very important part of the design proces. Maybe my post isnt worded well enough in English, but here in The Netherlands there is a clear difference between someone who is ''just'' a Structural Engineer, and someone who is a Structural Designer. A Structural Engineer the way I know it is someone who makes calculations and technical details, but does not design the structure as whole. The role of a Structural Designer the way I described it is not just something I came up with, I know people who have this role.
Every firm operates a bit differently. At my firm (USA, largest firm in our small market) each engineer operates a lot like you describe. We all engineer and pretty much draw all of our own projects. We are the ones coordinating with the architects, mechanicals, etc. to come up with the details that work for everyone. The calculations are honestly a small part of the job. A lot of the work is finding solutions to structural problems and arriving at solutions that work both structurally and for the architectural client. It's a bit of an art. We are essentially a 15 person shop of individuals. Most projects are small enough in scope that one engineer handles everything from concept, to design, to modeling/detailing. It is not the way that every firm operates, but we all handle our own clients and projects and have collogues to bounce ideas and solutions off of. There is no hard line between drafter and engineer. I feel like firms that operate in that way are going by the wayside.
This is exactly the type of job I'm imagining! What kind of studies did you do and how did you end up with this job?
Its just the way we operate. I have my M.S. in structures and it's just the job I fell into. No real path leads you to places like this. You really need to be looking at specific firms rather than worrying about the studies. Finish your education and take a really hard look at the firms that are out there. You need to be choosy about where you work and what you are looking for. I find that we are rare in this little world we operate in. We are certainly not the norm in this industry. Stay away from big firms if that is what you are looking for. All about where you land more than what you know.
The job you are imagining is structural engineering as the poster described. I don't know what this is on Holland, but there isno structural designer role.
Why is it so hard for you to believe that the world doesnt revolve around the US? Other countries can have different names for things. Where I live there is a difference between someone who gets called a “Structural Engineer” and “Structural Designer”. This difference not being a thing in the US doesnt mean that it doesnt exist somewhere else in the world.
I worked in UK and am from Europe. When I was an engineer in UK, there is no structural designer license. I also workerd at arup and buro happold. CEng or IStructE in UK which is similar to US but more experience based and less intensive or exam based to the US which probably has the hardest license in the world to become a structural engoneer. Your "structural designer" license seems to be very specific to Netherlands, and doesn't exist out of netwhrlsnds. Just my 2c
You seem to be very bothered by it, but I’m really not sure how else to describe it to you without directly translating the terms to “Constructief Ontwerper” (Structural Designer) and “Constructeur” (Structural Engineer). To put it simply: every “Constructief Ontwerper” is a “Constructeur”, but not every “Constructeur” is a “Constructief Ontwerper”
Ok. You accused me of saying the world revolves around US assuming I'm not wordly wise enough. Structural engineers by nature are generally worldly wise by Nature as we have to be for our profession. Maybe designers can be more lazie faire. I find it odd you can be a structural engineer before a designer in the Netherlands, but hey, every country is different. You obviously know so much about the titles in the Netherlands, you should know how to go about being a structural designer there. I think you have got a good range of responses and are mature enough now to go your own way based on them.
Someone who is worldly wise accepts that things can work differently somewhere else without camping in their comments ;)
You don’t need to do “calculations” your whole life. However, if you want to be successful you need to be able to follow the “calculations” other makes. My tip to someone who’s still in university is not to plan 10-15 years ahead, but focus on the part you find most interesting and land a job within that area. From there new opportunities that you didn’t think of when you were studying will open up. If you are somewhat ambitious I would recommend going for the “hardcore calculations” part of whatever area you want to work in and you’ll have a lot of options after that. In oil and gas where I work that often means the engineering consulting firms that the majors and equipment suppliers use for support on challenging projects.
In the is that would be a modeller or a drafter, you can't be a structural engineer without doing design
Exactly well put, I feel more and more we engineers are less respected when "it will work' comes from someone who doesn't do the calcs to prove it works or doesnt have to be the EOR
I dont think either of you truly understood my post
You asked how do you become a structural designer. You are 23. I think most of the posts here are syaing, a structural designer is basically an entry level position and you are already one.
Nope, you didnt read my post. At the end I clearly state that where I live, you can ONLY become a Structural Designer AFTER being a LICENSED *Structural Engineer* . I get that it might be confusing for you since youre in the US but thats why I cleared that up in my post. I’m very aware that I have to become a licensed Structural Engineer first. Its just that I want a more broad job where I’m also involved in the entire design proces. Thats what a Structural Designer is, in The Netherlands at least.
All the tasks you mention, seem expected from the role of a structural engineer. I guess a Netherlands specific sub might help. Design is inherently a part of engineering. I don't think a structural designer role you mention exists out of the Netherlands.
From personal experience I've worked on projects with one too many PMs from other disciplines who didn't know how to not overpromise things to the client. One too many roadway PMs promising that "yeah the structural engineers can have that done in a day or two". Motherfucker I have 3 projects already due in a day or two. I'm not even starting on it for at least a week. Put simply if you're going to be a PM without a design background I can probably replace you with an MBA from a 2 bit university with an accounting background who went back to school when he couldn't hack it at the big 4. And I'll pay him half as much and he'll thank me. Downvote me all you want. Worked at the US multi national firms on $100 million+ construction designs. We called them document coordinators and project accountants. Generally they were literature majors and accountants who failed the CPA exam and would work for $20/hr. Much cheaper to use for management tasks than the engineering PM at $80 to $100/hr.
Yeah, it sounds arrogant, but I really don't want to take direction from a PM unless they have an SE
I actually had it happen recently where the PM was not an SE and directed us that we could skip steps and the EOR (in a location where the EOR is required to hold an SE license) told him very unpolitely and bluntly that under no circumstances would we be doing what he said or the aforementioned PM could find a new SE to stamp his work. So the PM isn't really involved much anymore and we do what the SE says.
Yeah, I think I need to man up a bit and take that attitude. I'm culpable other wise for the demeaning of our profession. Good remindrr.
You're totally right about people not understanding you - and that's probably because you work in very different contexts. The reality is that in school you're given more opportunities to think critically and consider design because that's intriguing (to keep you interested) and produces more creative thinking (which is beneficial regardless of what you end up doing). I speak from an American perspective, so take it with a grain of salt, but it sounds like you want to do the job of what is typically done by two different people: conceptual/schematic design typically done by an architect (or someone similarly familiar with building codes, construction techniques, market viability, etc) and a structural engineer (deal with the complexities that come with more interesting designs). In the US Structural Designer is just a vague title that means an unlicensed person who performs structural engineering work/tasks. If you're passionate about building design, you could totally continue your education through architecture and take your engineering background into the design studio. Or, as others have pointed out - work in an AE firm so that you have a more intimate working relationship with the architects/designers.
I honestly think its becoming more of a definition problem at this point. I live in The Netherlands, here a Structural Designer is a genuine, licensed title. You cant become one without a valid degree and many years of experience. The job still consists of peforming calculations and managing projects, its just more broad. You also get to be very involved in the design proces from start to finish. Is this not a thing in america?!
In the US you get the title of EIT after passing the FE exam (w/ the engineering degree), then w/ that you can take the PE exam and w/ enough experience you can become a licensed engineer. Structural Designer doesn't really mean anything specific in my experience. **And you're right, it's totally a context/language barrier leading people to confuse you intentions lol
I guess thats where all the confusion is coming from. Where I live you can only become a Structural Designer when you're already a licensed Structural Engineer. I guess you could see it as a 'bonus'
I've seen structural designer used here in the US for basically an engineer who acts as a structural engineer but cannot be called one as they done have the professional license. You cannot call yourself a civil engineer or structural engineer unless you are licensed.
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What states? Pretty much every state I know of requires you to have a license to call yourself an engineer
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Yes I understand that for SE designation. My point is, if you are an EIT or none EiT, firms in US often use project engineer, design engineer etc in lieu of engineer, structural engineer, civil engineer. If any person uses the title civil engineer or structural engineer without a license it is not allowed. In fact, you also are supposed to clarify which state you are licensed in, on correspondnece, and if not licensed in that state but are doing business in that state, you cannot use the PE or anything engineer title.
I believe also Hawaii and Illinois will not allow you to practice or say you are a structural engineer without an SE not PE license.
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Lawyers? Ok. I'm just clarifying what you posetd. http://www.ncsea.com/resources/licensure/
Part of the problem is that our industry is very fragmented. In the early days of building skyscrapers in America you could be an architect that sized structural members. These architects were essentially master builders and understood every facet of design and construction. As time went on, buildings became much more complex and evolved from the mass masonry/ transitional masonry forms. Today, the architect develops the look and form of a building. The architect sets the column grid, develops the program, and decides on the structural system. Modern day structural engineers use various software packages and hand calculations to make the architect’s vision a reality. We use calculations and computer models to generate structural framing plans. The only thing I can think of that comes close to what you are looking for is a firm like ARUP or SOM that employs both architects and engineers. I don’t have first hand experience with them but I imagine there would be more collaboration and involvement in the programming and design of the building by both the architect and the structural engineer.
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I know exactly what you mean and this is what I despised most when working at a SE company, large firm. Literally creating calculating machines out of someone, never getting to even have some kind of feel of what the entire project is like. Its kinda sad. THAT is the part of calculating that I dont like. Ofcourse this doesnt apply everywhere but I’ve seen it happen, never want to end up in that position. Your comment is very helpful, thank you!!
There is no position that gives you the keys to car shortly after graduation. You have to prove you can drive it and drive it well. In all conditions and locales. That’s when you get to do the job you’re asking for… if you’re as capable and quick at downloading info you’ll progress fast enough that it’ll feel like no time. But you sadly don’t get to skip the steps. Part of being great on the design side is found through doing the iterations and seeing what does and doesn’t work. This can take a decade or two for most folks.
I could’ve written this myself. Similarly, I am a “creative” at heart and almost went to art school over engineering school (sometimes I still wish I had). Find an A/E firm to work for, the smaller the better.
Haha same, I started my studies with the idea of becoming an architect. Quickly switched up to Structural Engineering tho and never regretted that decision
Yes, I also considered transferring to the architecture school at my college partway through freshman year, but decided against it. I like space planning, but grateful I didn’t end up as an architect, drawing details of waterproofing and window frames for ages. 20+ years later, I’m now the only engineer at a very small local suburban architecture group (there are literally 5 people). It’s fun because I get to do architectural layouts and drawings when I’m not busy with engineering stuff. I bring in all of my own engineering work and do those projects from start to finish on my own (which means doing all of the calculations on my own, but also everything else). Honestly, drawing details is the most tedious part of it. It starts out fun, but when you’ve been drawing what feels like the same details, just slightly different, for years on end, it gets boring. I like the stuff where I really have to think out of the box - coming up with solutions to on-site construction problems during Construction Administration is some of the most creative stuff we get to do! Good luck with everything - be patient with your career choices and wait for the right thing!
Thanks so much!! Your job sounds very fun and interesting
Seems like you might be a good candidate for a position at my company, feel free to message me and I can give you more info
In the UK there's no structural designer role. But the description of working with the architect is what a structural engineer would do. Some people stay more technical, some more management and some do both.
If your in Oklahoma I'm interested in you
I think there is a niche for you, that will combine structural engineering with creative designing. Have you heard about parametric engineering? There is a software called Rhino/Grasshopper that will allow you to design structures in a very creative way with Grasshopper. It already became standard and it is known in the industry. Check it out.
Well, I can only give advice from what I know living in the US. If I were in your shoes, I’d look up architecture firms who have their own structural design team. Or ask them who they consult to do their structural engineering work and go there. You may have several options after you do that research. ETA: Ooooh, and I may have misunderstood you, but yeah just know that you’ll basically never really have a hand in the “design process” in the sense of making things actually *look* different. You’re making the architect’s vision work structurally.
Sounds like a revit technician.