Sauron has the power to burn people to death through his touch. Maybe it was just artistic liberty by Jackson? Esp considering that wasn't actually how Sauron fell during this battle, but idk
After reading the silmarillon I'm convinced the ROP writers not only haven't read the books, but simply put a bunch of LOTR nouns into a computer mad-libs style and filmed what came out.
At that point, if you’re wise - or frankly, even only a somewhat decent person - you understand that you cannot do what you want.
And then you say "Maybe this show is a bad idea."
And then you don’t do it.
And then there’s peace in the world.
BUT NO, FUCK THAT, AND THE SOURCE MATERIAL, TOO.
Let’s just gobble together something hodge-podge that looks like poorly conceived Game of Thrones, because Bezos is so dead inside only more money brings him any form of fulfillment, let’s slap the Lord of the Rings Label on there because that really sells great, and hoards of brand-loyal Fans(TM) will lap it up without the slightest bit of scrutiny because "OH MAH GOD LORD OF THA RINGZ!"
I deeply, deeply resent human existence sometimes.
Last I heard they don't have the rights to it. So knowing the lore is actually dangerous because they specifically can't use that.
So it's worse than you are thinking. They're contractually obligated to make it shitty and inconsistent with the lore.
I mean it is supposed to be a story about a rich kid who only had to move the needle 1% more after heroes did the work, and got shot to death later running from Orcs.
There is a reason his line was considered a failure until Aragorn proved that being an absolute bitch was some kind of quirk that hit one generation only.
That makes it worse. He had MORE advantages and still screwed it up.
I didn't say anything about his physicality. I said he was an absolute bitch.
"The race of Men is failing. The blood of Númenor is all but spent, its pride and dignity forgotten. It is because of Men the Ring survives. I was there Gandalf. I was there three thousand years ago when Isildur took the Ring. I was there the day the strength of Men failed."
When Elrond says this he is describing Isildur shitting the bed so hard it broke his faith in humanity.
Exactly, it’s clearly just the route that Jackson chose to go with because it’s complicated otherwise.
Badass fight to the death with two of the most prominent figures and best warriors of the age? Awesome. Would have been great to see.
But then you’d have a very brief intro that is going to cut into a peaceful shire second “real” intro overshadowed by people wondering about those warriors and everything else, expecting to certainly see them again.
You could do it and pull it off, but honestly you could debate how to do that intro on and off for a long long long time and make valid points in every direction. And I’m sure they did.
For some reason, this just made me think of a version of all this where *the entire Lord of the Rings* is just a vision taking place in the imagination of Isildur as he's about to destroy the ring.
At the end of the movie, we just flashback to the present with Isildur who decides to toss the ring in.
Fin.
Where do they say this? It’s been so long since I’ve read the books and silmarrion and got in a recent rabbit hole trying to remember and I can’t find it
[The] sword of Elendil broke under him as he fell. But ... with the hilt-shard of Narsil Isildur cut the Ruling Ring from the hand of Sauron....
*The Silmarillion, Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age*
The man couldn't even quote. There's almost an entire page describing the events of the fall of Sauron on Mount Doom.
In Of the Rings of Power Tolkien writes that Gil-Galad and Elendil overthrew Sauron and then Isildur cut off the ring from Sauron's body (which was laying around motionless) and AFTER THAT Sauron's soul departed from his so-called corpse that OP mentions.
However in the Letters Tolkien says Gil-Galad and Elendil were slain *in the act* of killing Sauron. Then Isildur takes the Ring and Sauron's spirit departs.
Whatever that means. I'm not an English professor. But someone said Sauron's soul was trapped in his body and only Isildur cutting off the ring made Sauron able to depart from his body. But I, personally, see that Sauron was willingly staying and trying to heal himself with the power of the Ring. But when the Ring was cut off he immediately fled. So in this way he could prevent fatal damage to his power of taking a new shape again.
And they fight without pause for 3 days. On the last they are all thrown down together. As they fight the crush of men and orcs surges around them as the last battle of the Second Age rages.
Elendil and Gil-Galad teamed up against him. Both were killed (and Narsil broke under Elendil's body when he fell), but in the meantime they achieved to inflict deadly wounds to Sauron, who then bled to death. Only then did Isildur use what was left of Narsil to cut Sauron's finger.
I'm still hesitating...on one hand the book version shows how strong Men and Elves can be, since two of them could be enough to kill a Maia in combat. Making Sauron's defeat a strike of luck from Isildur does not honor much their courage and the power of their alliance.
On the other hand, it makes Sauron a lot scarier if you believe that he can't be defeated as soon as he gets a physical form, raising the stakes for Frodo's quest because you instantly know how f*cked Middle-Earth will be if he fails.
Different media, different ways, I guess.
It also drastically changes how you perceive Isildur, having just learned this info from this thread. It's definitely more scumbaggins of him to loot the all powerful magic artifact from the corpse of a fallen angel than it is to have cut it off in self defense, and then pick it up from the ground. The motive in the book is straight up power grabbing, especially after your own father sacrifices himself to take Sauron down.
Which, then by extension, also changes how you perceive Aragorn's journey as well. He's not simply descended from the bloodline that brought the ring to Men, and fell to temptation, but from someone who actively sought out the ring for it's power, before being tempted.
In the books he takes it as weregild, or compensation for the cost of the war in men and resources. It's a common thing to do for the winning side in the era Tolkien bases the books on. Plus, Elrond only recommended he should throw it into Mt. Doom, and didn't know the full danger that it represented.
In addition to what u/Abject_Bicycle said, it's also heavily implied - to the point of being outright stated, just in poetic language - that Isildur was indeed part of the combat with Sauron. [Edit: The later part of the same passage I'm remembering actually suggests the opposite]
Elrond, explaining about Isildur taking the ring, and why few people knew it happened, says something like, "In that final battle only Isildur stood by Elendil, and by Gil-Galad stood only Cirdan and I."
So it was more like two ancient, seen-the-light-of-the-Trees Noldor, a part-angel-part-elf-part-man and two near-8ft-tall meta-humans with a magic sword vs Sauron.
That's just a misinterpretation. In the same page you get clear sight that only Elendil and Gil-Galad fought Sauron. While Cirdan and Elrond and Isildur were just standing near and didn't come to their kings until the fight was over.
In Appendices, it's stated Gil-Galad and Elendil overthrow Sauron.
In The Silmarillion, it's the same.
In the Letters, the same.
Every source, it's the same.
In the Council of Elrond, the actual quotes go like this:
"I beheld the last combat on the slopes of Orodruin, where Gil-galad died, and Elendil fell, and Narsil broke beneath him; but Sauron himself was overthrown, and Isildur cut the Ring from his hand with the hilt-shard of his father's sword, and took it for his own.'
At this the stranger, Boromir, broke in. ‘So that is what became
of the Ring!’ he cried. ‘If ever such a tale was told in the South, it
has long been forgotten. I have heard of the Great Ring of him that
we do not name; but we believed that it perished from the world in
the ruin of his first realm. Isildur took it! That is tidings indeed.’
‘Alas! yes,’ said Elrond. ‘Isildur took it, as should not have been.
It should have been cast then into Orodruin’s fire nigh at hand where
it was made. But few marked what Isildur did. He alone stood by
his father in that last mortal contest; and by Gil-galad only Cırdan
stood, and I. But Isildur would not listen to our counsel."
The last mortal contest is the last mortal contest of Elendil and Gil-Galad.
I have indeed *misremembered* the more full passage - Elrond saying he 'beheld' the contest heavily implies that his later 'stood by' is probably to be interpreted more literally that they were standing near/backing up their Lords, rather than the poetic 'we stood by them *in combat*' interpretation one might get from just the later part of the passage.
I also think it’s good subtext setup for the movies. Sauron is an arrogant dark lord of evil he reaches for Isildur with *the hand that has his all power ring on it* not thinking there was a possibility this guy could slice his hand off with it.
It sets up that Sauron underestimates his enemies which is proven again later when two hobbits sneak right under his giant eye into the mouth of Mount Doom.
Well, the fact that he didn't understand what they were trying to do with the Ring also comes from his confidence that no one bearing the One Ring would have the will to harm it or throw it away - and he was right, Frodo refused to do it.
You can always argue that the prologue is just a visual representation of Galadriel telling the story, and that it's not necessarily exactly what occurred
Although she left out the fact that she was there herself fighting, and Thranduil’s father died in the war too (although he died by his own stupid strategy). And Gil-Galad can’t really be seen, but there is some image of him so I am not sure if he is there for a second or if it’s just photo of cut scene.
Honestly it would make sense if Elrond was the narrator. He is shown in the prologue leading the troops which he was not. He was literally holding Gil-Galad’s banner, not even fighting. And he is shown in the flashback wisely telling Isildur he should destroy the Ring too!
Go fetch me those sneaking Orcs, that fare thus strangely, as if in dread, and do not come, as all Orcs use and are commanded, to bring me news of all their deeds, to me, Gorthaur.
They had cut out of the prologue a little beat that would explain what's happening here: earlier, Sauron was going to grab the [elven king Gil-galad](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-368d48e2b8b133ac07ac49195294a984-pjlq) (glimpsed briefly in a few shots of the finished film, both as one of the Ringbearers and in the battle) by his face, lift him clean off of the ground and then, as a consequence of the touch of Sauron's blistering hot hand, the Elf would burst into flames and be summarily thrown aside.
That's what Sauron is conspiring to do to Isildur here: he wants to burn him with his touch!
There’s actually some concept and primitive footage and photos of what it would’ve looked like. It’s on YouTube somewhere if you’d like to see an hour of what could’ve been.
It would have been nice to see more of Gil-galad and Elendil in the prologue: I like the idea that the Elves once had an Empire and that it basically dissolved with Gil-galad's death, with Elrond left to pick up the pieces.
Or just give some more story about the elves or why Sauron would use his hands when he has a perfectly serviceable mace.
https://youtu.be/4CxqTBTAeBQ
Death of Gil Galad is at the 2 minute mark. Fun to see what could’ve been but it works well as a movie.
>Fun to see what could’ve been but it works well as a movie.
It does. Earlier drafts had the narrator name Gil galad and Elendil and give a little bit more backstory, but the filmmakers said that it was all just too much information at the start of the film, and that they wanted the prologue to function primarily as a Bond-esque exciting action opening, moreso than as a huge exposition dump. It was unquestionably the right call.
Still, now that its the fourth entry of a six-part series, its role in "hooking" the audience into the story is less crucial and so you kinda wish to see that footage added so that we get a sense of what Elvendom once was.
> Still, now that its the fourth entry of a six-part series, its role in “hooking” the audience into the story is less crucial and so you kinda wish to see that footage added so that we get a sense of what Elvendom once was.
I still have my fingers crossed for a 12-hour Peter Jackson definitive directors cut.
It is kind of stupid, for sure, but tbf Movie Sauron isn't as bad off as Book Sauron. Book Sauron actually takes on Elendil and loses the fight, getting killed outright by Elendil's sword. The magic that surrounds Sauron causes the sword to shatter and Elendil to perish, but Sauron himself is still dead. (Or well as dead as can be, given that the Ring preserves him, but nobody else knew that at the time.)
The thing about the whole situation is that Sauron is called Sauron the Sorcerer, not Sauron the Warrior, for a reason. Contests of arms are not his thing. Time and again, when he gets into a direct physical fight, he comes out the worse for it. And especially against the mortal heroes of Mankind, who seem to have an ability to defy fate at critical moments and overcome foes that even the Eldar cannot.
So Sauron held off for a 10 year siege before attempting personal combat, it was actually highly risky for him and didn't pay off.
It's interesting that you say that. It's interesting to view the *The Lord of the Rings* through the lens of strategy.
Removing ourselves somewhat from the incredible depth of detail, the lavish descriptions of places, and the captivating points of view of the characters, what do we see?
First some background. As Morgoth's most dreaded servant, Sauron was no doubt a terrifying adversary, but he was fairly specialized. Like the Istari, and in contrast with other dreaded servants of Morgoth such as the dragons and balrogs, Sauron was not primarily a warrior. Several times he is cornered, often when he is cynical about his enemies and overconfident about his own prospects, and is forced to flee from physical combat heavily wounded, lucky to escape with his life.
Clearly he is shaped by that experience. Realizing that wile is going to be a better ally than might throughout his time in Middle Earth, Sauron reads the signs and flees Morgoth's side before the end. He carefully sets in motion a plan that spans millennia, waiting over a thousand years to cautiously reintroduce himself to Middle Earth.
But Sauron's ring experiment is only partly effective. Still hampered by cynicism, Sauron believes that all the wearers of rings of power will fall wholly under his power. But the elves prove too alert and the dwarves too resilient. Only the Nine work out as planned. Less than half the rings.
This is actually a pretty major failure.
As a result Sauron is forced into a series of out and out martial contests that he will be hard-pressed to win, even with the power of his ruling ring. As a military commander in chief, Sauron is capable but not brilliant. He takes a fairly conservative approach to warfare, seeming to only choose to fight when he has overwhelming resources on his side. With mixed results: over the next couple of millennia, he is repeatedly driven back, particularly when the heroes of Men come over from Númenor.
After his worst defeat, Sauron manages to become captured instead of escaping. This is actually one of his better moves. From Númenor he is able to exploit his captors' weaknesses -- for once, his foes are as arrogant, cruel, and hypocritical as Sauron's own overdeveloped cynicism makes them out to be.
So that is fruitful for him. But in the end he miscalculates and is killed in the destruction of Númenor. If it weren't for his Ring, this would have been it for Sauron -- the looming demise he could, at last, no longer outrun or outwit.
Instead, of course, he swiftly returns, because he is still wearing his Ring, but he pays a heavy cost to reincorporate his tangible form. And he is unable to mount a very convincing return to power -- his armies are quickly defeated, his tower besieged, and at the end he is unable to break the siege himself, falling in combat with -- you guessed it -- a hero of Men.
So while Sauron managed to build and hold an impressive empire for part of the Second Age, he continued to falter when it came to defeating his greatest enemies -- the Eldar, the descendents of the Edain, and the children of Durin.
In particular, the Second Age, which was supposed to be the end of the Eldar in Middle Earth, became a time of their rallying to its defense. And the Third Age, with the Three at last free to fulfill their purpose, *also* fail to be a time of twilight.
So when Sauron finally, painstakingly, returns in the Third Age, he finds the usual suspects still arrayed against him, yet his own resources massively attenuated. Despite the work his minions have done over the intervening centuries, it still takes Sauron decades to make any progress against Gondor. The ring-defended elf-kingdoms are completely beyond his reach. And he has no idea where his Ruling Ring is. The thing has disappeared without a trace, and Sauron runs out quite a bit of the clock trying to find it.
He also underestimates the renewing power of mortal Men, which is kind of insane considering Sauron's history of entanglements with mortal heroes. The heir of Elendil proves to be way more like Elendil than Sauron seemed to believe was possible in the late Third Age. He also underestimates the Istari -- equally insane given that Sauron is essentially one of them. And, as a strategist he way overplays his hand. He loses all of his Ringwraiths at one point, taking them out of the story at a critical point -- the embarkation of the Fellowship -- when they could have done quite a bit of damage. By deploying his Ringwraiths directly into battle unsupported, he loses his chief Ringwraith permanently to a young mortal woman with nothing more than fierce loyalty and a fearless heart. And his entire siege of Minas Tirith hinges on a mixture of magical tricks and cynicism: his magic cloud; the assumption that Denethor's downfall will take the city with him; and the assumption that neither Théoden nor Aragorn -- two of the most cunning battle commanders alive -- would possess the necessary wile to reach the battlefield in time with reinforcements.
So he's lost an entire army, the Nine are down to Eight, and meanwhile while he's bottled up Erebor, he fails to bottle up Lothlórien and loses several armies in the process.
Plus Sauron's failure to move against Rivendell had freed Elrond to send half-elf and ranger reinforcements to Helm's Deep.
And of course most famously, Sauron's deep cynicism about the nature of his enemies blinds him to their massive feint. Sauron is convinced that no one who encounters his Ring would fail to want it for their own power, and is sure that when Aragorn leads a vastly inadequate army against his forces at the Gates of Mordor that the Ring is going to come into play any moment now.
The idea that the Wise might literally have been walking his Ring into its original forging place while his attention is focused entirely elsewhere is totally lost on Sauron. Utterly. His lack of strategic imagination proves catastrophic -- but as we see in the real world, such catastrophic strategic failures are not uncommon among those who are overly cynical, and who can imagine only that everyone else alive is as vain and vicious as they themselves.
So, all in all, I'd say that the stupid side of Sauron gets exploited pretty well over the Ages.
And, maybe, we can learn a few things from this that are useful in our own times.
One of the things that I think highlights the in universe strategy (during the movie events specirically) really well is the War of the Ring board game. It's a hugely complicated asymmetrical wargame and frequently (or at least the two times I played it, it took 6-8 hours both times) you end up making the same strategic decisions that the characters do because it just makes sense.
Thank you for this - really rather intriguing and has resulted in me now wanting to play Third Age Total War/Warhammer TW (god I wish an official LotR TW game was made)
My take has always been that it was down to Sauron's vanity and arrogance, two of his greatest flaws. The very idea that a pair of weak mortals like Isildur and Elendil could challenge him was probably an affront to Sauron's ego. He didn't just want to defeat them, he wanted to make an example of them. First, he smashed Elendil like a bug in front of his men. Then he sees Isildur rushing to his father's side and crying like the little snowflake mortal man he is. He reaches for his father's sword, and Sauron shatters it in his hands. There's no way Sauron considered a broken sword to be a weapon worthy of defeating him, especially when wielded by some no-name like Isildur. So, he reaches down to grab Isildur. He was probably going to lift him up and burn him to ash in front of all the Elves and Men to see, and that would likely have been the beginning of the end. Blinded by his hunger for victory and hatred of the Free Peoples, Sauron never stopped to consider that even the smallest things can change the course of the future. It was a lesson Sauron he unable to learn from.
Sauron fights Gil-Galad, high king of the elves and Elendil, a numenorean. Numenoreans are taller and stronger and longer lives than regular men. Think orcs vs Uruk hai for human vs Numenorean. There’s a big difference. So, an extremely old and extremely fit elf and a super human vs sauron. Sauron knew, at that moment, that he fucked up
I like how your take is like objectively wrong at this point, (at least in terms of book accuracy, based on other comments), but still makes a complete story.
I always did well in English. I know this isn't how it went down in the books, but it's my theory on why Sauron acted the way he did towards Isildur in the films when he could've just battered him.
I think it’s an artistic liberty in the books he was essentially defeated and on the ground already. Also the thing about Sauron is he lost basically every time he tried to takeover middle earth. His major advantage was being able to wait for long periods of time between defeats.
Let me put it this way. Maiar are so powerful that they don't believe they can lose. The only reason he was defeated was because he put his strength in the ring. That's why even Gandalf was tempted, because if he had is own power in addition to Sauron's he could slay the valar. Maybe even perma kill ainur
>because if he had is own power in addition to Sauron's he could slay the valar
that's simply not true.
No Maiar would be able to contend with any of the Valar. They are not even close.
He couldn't slay the valar not at all. For starters Aule would probably be able to unmake the ring without putting it in mount doom all by himself. And I don't think he could permanently kill the ainur either.
Correct me if I am wrong but didn’t Tolkien in his letters say that Gandalf had a 50% shot at taking Sauron if he had to ring but would be corrupted by the remaining spirit of Sauron in the ring?
And I must follow if I can. The road goes ever on and on, down from the door where it began, now far ahead the road has gone, and I must follow if I can.
Don't tempt me ContAnonima! I dare not take it. Not even to keep it safe. Understand ContAnonima, I would use this Ring from the desire to do good. But through me, it would wield a power too great and terrible to imagine.
He feared he would fall into evil. The maiar are fallible. He didn't want to be corrupted. He knew that if he took it things would only get worse, except this time even leaving middle earth wouldn't save them
No. When the Valar came to Middle Earth to fight Morgoth they sank most of Beleriand into the sea *by accident*. Sauron with the ring was soundly defeated by Ar-Pharazôn, and only survived using trickery. Then he tricked the Númenóreans into committing suicide by Valar and floated back to Mordor to lick his wounds. Then, still having the One Ring, was defeated *again* by the Last Alliance. The only reason the Valar didn't go head-to-head against Sauron is that they were afraid of the damage *they* would do to the rest of Middle Earth in the process.
Isildur the king
Isildur the dick
Two can play that game Sauron the dark lord
or should I say Sauron the first born
what?
Sauron the thick snore!
Stop it
SAURON THE WORST PORN!
noooo
Because he was thinking, "wait a minute, I was supposed to die to the elf king and this guy's dad, but now they're dead. I must be invincible!"
But actually I think it's a reference to the fact that book Sauron's main weapons were his hands. His body gives off a f***ton of heat and his hands can basically melt flesh.* The reaching for Isildur is a little contrived in the films given that we just saw Sauron send like 200 guys to Brazil with a few swings of his mace in the preceding shots, but PJ really wanted to set up Sauron losing the ring as the thing that makes him die/lose his physical body rather than Isildur cutting the ring off his lifeless hand like he does in the source material.
* A little tidbit I particularly like is that Isildur burns himself when he first picks up the Ring because it's so hot. Compare that to when Gandalf drops the Ring in Frodo's hand after cooking it in the fireplace, at which point he says "it's quite cool," implying that sitting in the fireplace barely heated it at all. This gives you an idea of just how blisteringly hot Sauron's presence was.
Beacause Jackson's movie aren't faithful. Sauron in the books had no weapon and was fighting and destroying enemies with his bare (burning) hands. So he simply tried to kill him.
Where does it say he has no weapon? Theres nothing that implies that
Yes gilgald was killed by saurons burning touch, but doesnt mean he had a weapon too. Morgoth himself had a weapon
He's arrogant and cocky. He came in, almost won the battle all by himself. Probably wanted to show off and intimidate him. Thought he was too powerful for Isildur to do anything about it.
Sauron has the power to burn people to death through his touch. Maybe it was just artistic liberty by Jackson? Esp considering that wasn't actually how Sauron fell during this battle, but idk
How did he fell? I need to reread the books I guess.
Gil-Galad and Elendil beat him to death, though they also died in the effort. Isildur cut the ring from Sauron’s corpse.
So Isildur gets all the credit for nothing?
If ROP is anything to go by, it makes sense.
HRAAAAAH!
This made me chuckle too much. So random
Not really. it’s my exact reaction when I hear ROP
But ROP is the most accurate adaptation ever
HRAAAAAH!
Literally tantamount to speaking the Black Speech in Imladris.
Can I get a HRAAAAAH! Hraaaah Bilbo bot?
ROFC- Rolling on floor chuckling
Good bot
After reading the silmarillon I'm convinced the ROP writers not only haven't read the books, but simply put a bunch of LOTR nouns into a computer mad-libs style and filmed what came out.
They didn’t have the rights to Silmarillion, so….
At that point, if you’re wise - or frankly, even only a somewhat decent person - you understand that you cannot do what you want. And then you say "Maybe this show is a bad idea." And then you don’t do it. And then there’s peace in the world. BUT NO, FUCK THAT, AND THE SOURCE MATERIAL, TOO. Let’s just gobble together something hodge-podge that looks like poorly conceived Game of Thrones, because Bezos is so dead inside only more money brings him any form of fulfillment, let’s slap the Lord of the Rings Label on there because that really sells great, and hoards of brand-loyal Fans(TM) will lap it up without the slightest bit of scrutiny because "OH MAH GOD LORD OF THA RINGZ!" I deeply, deeply resent human existence sometimes.
Let’s also show a balrog at the end of episode 6 and then never mention it again for the rest of the series.
Haha, exactly
That's because you actually read the Silmarillion. They didn't buy the rights to the Silmarillion, they only used the appendices.
When the script for the billion dollar show is due tomorrow but the chat gpt beta just released.
ChatGPT would have done a better job because it would actually ape a 3 act structure.
HRAAAAAH!
Last I heard they don't have the rights to it. So knowing the lore is actually dangerous because they specifically can't use that. So it's worse than you are thinking. They're contractually obligated to make it shitty and inconsistent with the lore.
The sea is always right
Rings of power isnt canon. It can’t be. The rings are crafted in the wrong order in the show. Before I get lynched, yes, I loved RoP.
Credit… he should get all the blame other than Sauron himself.
To Eilinel thou soon shalt go, and lie in her bed.
I mean it is supposed to be a story about a rich kid who only had to move the needle 1% more after heroes did the work, and got shot to death later running from Orcs. There is a reason his line was considered a failure until Aragorn proved that being an absolute bitch was some kind of quirk that hit one generation only.
No. Orcs patrol the eastern shore. We must wait for cover of darkness.
You’re not really proving his point here, Aragorn
Six thousand will not be enough to break the lines of Mordor.
Fair enough
Isildur was of nobler stock than Aragorn. He was probably physically superior
THE BEACONS OF MINAS TIRITH! THE BEACONS ARE LIT! GONDOR CALLS FOR AID!
You look terrible.
That makes it worse. He had MORE advantages and still screwed it up. I didn't say anything about his physicality. I said he was an absolute bitch. "The race of Men is failing. The blood of Númenor is all but spent, its pride and dignity forgotten. It is because of Men the Ring survives. I was there Gandalf. I was there three thousand years ago when Isildur took the Ring. I was there the day the strength of Men failed." When Elrond says this he is describing Isildur shitting the bed so hard it broke his faith in humanity.
You're in the service of the steward now. You'll have to do as you are told Seer434. Ridiculous Redditor! Guard of the Citadel!
I thought the ring made him roll zero on luck
Well, he does get the credit for defiling and robbing a corpse.. I know it's not much, but maybe it's honest work..
Probably that why they don’t use it , it make him sounds weaker than the being he is
Yeah without the background of who those two phenomenally great and powerful characters are it seems like just two kings did it.
Yep and dying from getting the ring separated from him sounds stupid but does work with his ego
There had to be some changes for the big screen from the book
I've only watched the movies. I assumed that he had put so much of his power and essence into the ring that he could not exist without it.
By the time of the story he had actually gathered enough power again to regain a physical body.
The ring was a horcrux
Get out!
Exactly, it’s clearly just the route that Jackson chose to go with because it’s complicated otherwise. Badass fight to the death with two of the most prominent figures and best warriors of the age? Awesome. Would have been great to see. But then you’d have a very brief intro that is going to cut into a peaceful shire second “real” intro overshadowed by people wondering about those warriors and everything else, expecting to certainly see them again. You could do it and pull it off, but honestly you could debate how to do that intro on and off for a long long long time and make valid points in every direction. And I’m sure they did.
Also for emphasizing how tied it is to him
Yep it make the death from its destruction make more sense
Hes in his body on the field and when Isildur cuts it he forsakes his body.
# DEATH!
For some reason, this just made me think of a version of all this where *the entire Lord of the Rings* is just a vision taking place in the imagination of Isildur as he's about to destroy the ring. At the end of the movie, we just flashback to the present with Isildur who decides to toss the ring in. Fin.
Directed by Robert B. Weide
So you have come back? Why have you neglected to report for so long?
Where do they say this? It’s been so long since I’ve read the books and silmarrion and got in a recent rabbit hole trying to remember and I can’t find it
[The] sword of Elendil broke under him as he fell. But ... with the hilt-shard of Narsil Isildur cut the Ruling Ring from the hand of Sauron.... *The Silmarillion, Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age*
And from that you get Sauron was already killed and Isildur just cut it from his corpse? Without more, nah.
The man couldn't even quote. There's almost an entire page describing the events of the fall of Sauron on Mount Doom. In Of the Rings of Power Tolkien writes that Gil-Galad and Elendil overthrew Sauron and then Isildur cut off the ring from Sauron's body (which was laying around motionless) and AFTER THAT Sauron's soul departed from his so-called corpse that OP mentions. However in the Letters Tolkien says Gil-Galad and Elendil were slain *in the act* of killing Sauron. Then Isildur takes the Ring and Sauron's spirit departs. Whatever that means. I'm not an English professor. But someone said Sauron's soul was trapped in his body and only Isildur cutting off the ring made Sauron able to depart from his body. But I, personally, see that Sauron was willingly staying and trying to heal himself with the power of the Ring. But when the Ring was cut off he immediately fled. So in this way he could prevent fatal damage to his power of taking a new shape again.
Wait a moment! We shall meet again soon. Tell Saruman that this dainty is not for him. I will send for it at once. Do you understand?
Awesome thanks!
They kinda showed that they were beating him but he is more powerful than an army Peter Jackson with more than a thought fixed it
And they fight without pause for 3 days. On the last they are all thrown down together. As they fight the crush of men and orcs surges around them as the last battle of the Second Age rages.
Man, I thought sauron would be too powerful to be beat to death by 2 men
Well one was the high king of the Noldor and the other was descended from kings of Numenor
One man and one elf.
Those were two of the most powerful good guys on earth.
*Thór-lush-shabarlak.*
Elendil and Gil-Galad teamed up against him. Both were killed (and Narsil broke under Elendil's body when he fell), but in the meantime they achieved to inflict deadly wounds to Sauron, who then bled to death. Only then did Isildur use what was left of Narsil to cut Sauron's finger.
Honestly like the movies version better
I'm still hesitating...on one hand the book version shows how strong Men and Elves can be, since two of them could be enough to kill a Maia in combat. Making Sauron's defeat a strike of luck from Isildur does not honor much their courage and the power of their alliance. On the other hand, it makes Sauron a lot scarier if you believe that he can't be defeated as soon as he gets a physical form, raising the stakes for Frodo's quest because you instantly know how f*cked Middle-Earth will be if he fails. Different media, different ways, I guess.
It also drastically changes how you perceive Isildur, having just learned this info from this thread. It's definitely more scumbaggins of him to loot the all powerful magic artifact from the corpse of a fallen angel than it is to have cut it off in self defense, and then pick it up from the ground. The motive in the book is straight up power grabbing, especially after your own father sacrifices himself to take Sauron down. Which, then by extension, also changes how you perceive Aragorn's journey as well. He's not simply descended from the bloodline that brought the ring to Men, and fell to temptation, but from someone who actively sought out the ring for it's power, before being tempted.
In the books he takes it as weregild, or compensation for the cost of the war in men and resources. It's a common thing to do for the winning side in the era Tolkien bases the books on. Plus, Elrond only recommended he should throw it into Mt. Doom, and didn't know the full danger that it represented.
But explaining all that would make for a pretty bad movie intro
Yeah def, I was just explaining that book isildur wasn't just being a corpse-defiling dickbag.
In addition to what u/Abject_Bicycle said, it's also heavily implied - to the point of being outright stated, just in poetic language - that Isildur was indeed part of the combat with Sauron. [Edit: The later part of the same passage I'm remembering actually suggests the opposite] Elrond, explaining about Isildur taking the ring, and why few people knew it happened, says something like, "In that final battle only Isildur stood by Elendil, and by Gil-Galad stood only Cirdan and I." So it was more like two ancient, seen-the-light-of-the-Trees Noldor, a part-angel-part-elf-part-man and two near-8ft-tall meta-humans with a magic sword vs Sauron.
That's just a misinterpretation. In the same page you get clear sight that only Elendil and Gil-Galad fought Sauron. While Cirdan and Elrond and Isildur were just standing near and didn't come to their kings until the fight was over. In Appendices, it's stated Gil-Galad and Elendil overthrow Sauron. In The Silmarillion, it's the same. In the Letters, the same. Every source, it's the same. In the Council of Elrond, the actual quotes go like this: "I beheld the last combat on the slopes of Orodruin, where Gil-galad died, and Elendil fell, and Narsil broke beneath him; but Sauron himself was overthrown, and Isildur cut the Ring from his hand with the hilt-shard of his father's sword, and took it for his own.' At this the stranger, Boromir, broke in. ‘So that is what became of the Ring!’ he cried. ‘If ever such a tale was told in the South, it has long been forgotten. I have heard of the Great Ring of him that we do not name; but we believed that it perished from the world in the ruin of his first realm. Isildur took it! That is tidings indeed.’ ‘Alas! yes,’ said Elrond. ‘Isildur took it, as should not have been. It should have been cast then into Orodruin’s fire nigh at hand where it was made. But few marked what Isildur did. He alone stood by his father in that last mortal contest; and by Gil-galad only Cırdan stood, and I. But Isildur would not listen to our counsel." The last mortal contest is the last mortal contest of Elendil and Gil-Galad.
I have indeed *misremembered* the more full passage - Elrond saying he 'beheld' the contest heavily implies that his later 'stood by' is probably to be interpreted more literally that they were standing near/backing up their Lords, rather than the poetic 'we stood by them *in combat*' interpretation one might get from just the later part of the passage.
I also think it’s good subtext setup for the movies. Sauron is an arrogant dark lord of evil he reaches for Isildur with *the hand that has his all power ring on it* not thinking there was a possibility this guy could slice his hand off with it. It sets up that Sauron underestimates his enemies which is proven again later when two hobbits sneak right under his giant eye into the mouth of Mount Doom.
Well, the fact that he didn't understand what they were trying to do with the Ring also comes from his confidence that no one bearing the One Ring would have the will to harm it or throw it away - and he was right, Frodo refused to do it.
# DEATH!
DEATH!
Why did he fall? Is he stupid?
He tripped, that happens
Biggest power trip ever.
How does that just happen to someone as powerful as him? Is he stupid?
Yes
So that he could learn to pick himself up
and when there was only one set of footprints in the sand, thats when Morgoth was carrying him.
GROND
thank you for the valuable feedback and insight.
his shoelaces were untied on his right foot but he actually stepped on the bunny ears on his left. always tuck your laces kids
Fucking banana peel. Gets 'em every time.
You can always argue that the prologue is just a visual representation of Galadriel telling the story, and that it's not necessarily exactly what occurred
While changing things to make elfs look better and humans worse. Wich makes me think prologue Galadriel sounds a lot like ROP Galadriel.
HRAAAAAH!
Although she left out the fact that she was there herself fighting, and Thranduil’s father died in the war too (although he died by his own stupid strategy). And Gil-Galad can’t really be seen, but there is some image of him so I am not sure if he is there for a second or if it’s just photo of cut scene. Honestly it would make sense if Elrond was the narrator. He is shown in the prologue leading the troops which he was not. He was literally holding Gil-Galad’s banner, not even fighting. And he is shown in the flashback wisely telling Isildur he should destroy the Ring too!
# DEATH!
DEATH!
Build me an army worthy of mordor!
Bravo Peter
Sauron was trying to grab the cameraman, Mordor is a dual-party consent state.
And yet thy boon I grant thee now.
Nevermind guys, cameras out!
Whose boons? My boons?
He trying to force push but he didn’t learn from the sith.
Sauron is a grappler and tried to perform a command grab
Sauron with that Ganon Side-B, Isildur responds with a perfectly spaced Marth Neutral-B
Go fetch me those sneaking Orcs, that fare thus strangely, as if in dread, and do not come, as all Orcs use and are commanded, to bring me news of all their deeds, to me, Gorthaur.
They had cut out of the prologue a little beat that would explain what's happening here: earlier, Sauron was going to grab the [elven king Gil-galad](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-368d48e2b8b133ac07ac49195294a984-pjlq) (glimpsed briefly in a few shots of the finished film, both as one of the Ringbearers and in the battle) by his face, lift him clean off of the ground and then, as a consequence of the touch of Sauron's blistering hot hand, the Elf would burst into flames and be summarily thrown aside. That's what Sauron is conspiring to do to Isildur here: he wants to burn him with his touch!
Next time use the hand that doesn't have your horcrux in it, stupid.
Perhaps the other hand doesn’t do that
There’s actually some concept and primitive footage and photos of what it would’ve looked like. It’s on YouTube somewhere if you’d like to see an hour of what could’ve been.
It would have been nice to see more of Gil-galad and Elendil in the prologue: I like the idea that the Elves once had an Empire and that it basically dissolved with Gil-galad's death, with Elrond left to pick up the pieces.
Or just give some more story about the elves or why Sauron would use his hands when he has a perfectly serviceable mace. https://youtu.be/4CxqTBTAeBQ Death of Gil Galad is at the 2 minute mark. Fun to see what could’ve been but it works well as a movie.
>Fun to see what could’ve been but it works well as a movie. It does. Earlier drafts had the narrator name Gil galad and Elendil and give a little bit more backstory, but the filmmakers said that it was all just too much information at the start of the film, and that they wanted the prologue to function primarily as a Bond-esque exciting action opening, moreso than as a huge exposition dump. It was unquestionably the right call. Still, now that its the fourth entry of a six-part series, its role in "hooking" the audience into the story is less crucial and so you kinda wish to see that footage added so that we get a sense of what Elvendom once was.
> Still, now that its the fourth entry of a six-part series, its role in “hooking” the audience into the story is less crucial and so you kinda wish to see that footage added so that we get a sense of what Elvendom once was. I still have my fingers crossed for a 12-hour Peter Jackson definitive directors cut.
It is kind of stupid, for sure, but tbf Movie Sauron isn't as bad off as Book Sauron. Book Sauron actually takes on Elendil and loses the fight, getting killed outright by Elendil's sword. The magic that surrounds Sauron causes the sword to shatter and Elendil to perish, but Sauron himself is still dead. (Or well as dead as can be, given that the Ring preserves him, but nobody else knew that at the time.) The thing about the whole situation is that Sauron is called Sauron the Sorcerer, not Sauron the Warrior, for a reason. Contests of arms are not his thing. Time and again, when he gets into a direct physical fight, he comes out the worse for it. And especially against the mortal heroes of Mankind, who seem to have an ability to defy fate at critical moments and overcome foes that even the Eldar cannot. So Sauron held off for a 10 year siege before attempting personal combat, it was actually highly risky for him and didn't pay off.
I wish this stupid side of Sauron was exploited more
It's interesting that you say that. It's interesting to view the *The Lord of the Rings* through the lens of strategy. Removing ourselves somewhat from the incredible depth of detail, the lavish descriptions of places, and the captivating points of view of the characters, what do we see? First some background. As Morgoth's most dreaded servant, Sauron was no doubt a terrifying adversary, but he was fairly specialized. Like the Istari, and in contrast with other dreaded servants of Morgoth such as the dragons and balrogs, Sauron was not primarily a warrior. Several times he is cornered, often when he is cynical about his enemies and overconfident about his own prospects, and is forced to flee from physical combat heavily wounded, lucky to escape with his life. Clearly he is shaped by that experience. Realizing that wile is going to be a better ally than might throughout his time in Middle Earth, Sauron reads the signs and flees Morgoth's side before the end. He carefully sets in motion a plan that spans millennia, waiting over a thousand years to cautiously reintroduce himself to Middle Earth. But Sauron's ring experiment is only partly effective. Still hampered by cynicism, Sauron believes that all the wearers of rings of power will fall wholly under his power. But the elves prove too alert and the dwarves too resilient. Only the Nine work out as planned. Less than half the rings. This is actually a pretty major failure. As a result Sauron is forced into a series of out and out martial contests that he will be hard-pressed to win, even with the power of his ruling ring. As a military commander in chief, Sauron is capable but not brilliant. He takes a fairly conservative approach to warfare, seeming to only choose to fight when he has overwhelming resources on his side. With mixed results: over the next couple of millennia, he is repeatedly driven back, particularly when the heroes of Men come over from Númenor. After his worst defeat, Sauron manages to become captured instead of escaping. This is actually one of his better moves. From Númenor he is able to exploit his captors' weaknesses -- for once, his foes are as arrogant, cruel, and hypocritical as Sauron's own overdeveloped cynicism makes them out to be. So that is fruitful for him. But in the end he miscalculates and is killed in the destruction of Númenor. If it weren't for his Ring, this would have been it for Sauron -- the looming demise he could, at last, no longer outrun or outwit. Instead, of course, he swiftly returns, because he is still wearing his Ring, but he pays a heavy cost to reincorporate his tangible form. And he is unable to mount a very convincing return to power -- his armies are quickly defeated, his tower besieged, and at the end he is unable to break the siege himself, falling in combat with -- you guessed it -- a hero of Men. So while Sauron managed to build and hold an impressive empire for part of the Second Age, he continued to falter when it came to defeating his greatest enemies -- the Eldar, the descendents of the Edain, and the children of Durin. In particular, the Second Age, which was supposed to be the end of the Eldar in Middle Earth, became a time of their rallying to its defense. And the Third Age, with the Three at last free to fulfill their purpose, *also* fail to be a time of twilight. So when Sauron finally, painstakingly, returns in the Third Age, he finds the usual suspects still arrayed against him, yet his own resources massively attenuated. Despite the work his minions have done over the intervening centuries, it still takes Sauron decades to make any progress against Gondor. The ring-defended elf-kingdoms are completely beyond his reach. And he has no idea where his Ruling Ring is. The thing has disappeared without a trace, and Sauron runs out quite a bit of the clock trying to find it. He also underestimates the renewing power of mortal Men, which is kind of insane considering Sauron's history of entanglements with mortal heroes. The heir of Elendil proves to be way more like Elendil than Sauron seemed to believe was possible in the late Third Age. He also underestimates the Istari -- equally insane given that Sauron is essentially one of them. And, as a strategist he way overplays his hand. He loses all of his Ringwraiths at one point, taking them out of the story at a critical point -- the embarkation of the Fellowship -- when they could have done quite a bit of damage. By deploying his Ringwraiths directly into battle unsupported, he loses his chief Ringwraith permanently to a young mortal woman with nothing more than fierce loyalty and a fearless heart. And his entire siege of Minas Tirith hinges on a mixture of magical tricks and cynicism: his magic cloud; the assumption that Denethor's downfall will take the city with him; and the assumption that neither Théoden nor Aragorn -- two of the most cunning battle commanders alive -- would possess the necessary wile to reach the battlefield in time with reinforcements. So he's lost an entire army, the Nine are down to Eight, and meanwhile while he's bottled up Erebor, he fails to bottle up Lothlórien and loses several armies in the process. Plus Sauron's failure to move against Rivendell had freed Elrond to send half-elf and ranger reinforcements to Helm's Deep. And of course most famously, Sauron's deep cynicism about the nature of his enemies blinds him to their massive feint. Sauron is convinced that no one who encounters his Ring would fail to want it for their own power, and is sure that when Aragorn leads a vastly inadequate army against his forces at the Gates of Mordor that the Ring is going to come into play any moment now. The idea that the Wise might literally have been walking his Ring into its original forging place while his attention is focused entirely elsewhere is totally lost on Sauron. Utterly. His lack of strategic imagination proves catastrophic -- but as we see in the real world, such catastrophic strategic failures are not uncommon among those who are overly cynical, and who can imagine only that everyone else alive is as vain and vicious as they themselves. So, all in all, I'd say that the stupid side of Sauron gets exploited pretty well over the Ages. And, maybe, we can learn a few things from this that are useful in our own times.
One of the things that I think highlights the in universe strategy (during the movie events specirically) really well is the War of the Ring board game. It's a hugely complicated asymmetrical wargame and frequently (or at least the two times I played it, it took 6-8 hours both times) you end up making the same strategic decisions that the characters do because it just makes sense.
I will not let the White city fall nor our people fail.
GROND
Thank you for this - really rather intriguing and has resulted in me now wanting to play Third Age Total War/Warhammer TW (god I wish an official LotR TW game was made)
Who despoiled them of their mirth, the greedy Gods?
My take has always been that it was down to Sauron's vanity and arrogance, two of his greatest flaws. The very idea that a pair of weak mortals like Isildur and Elendil could challenge him was probably an affront to Sauron's ego. He didn't just want to defeat them, he wanted to make an example of them. First, he smashed Elendil like a bug in front of his men. Then he sees Isildur rushing to his father's side and crying like the little snowflake mortal man he is. He reaches for his father's sword, and Sauron shatters it in his hands. There's no way Sauron considered a broken sword to be a weapon worthy of defeating him, especially when wielded by some no-name like Isildur. So, he reaches down to grab Isildur. He was probably going to lift him up and burn him to ash in front of all the Elves and Men to see, and that would likely have been the beginning of the end. Blinded by his hunger for victory and hatred of the Free Peoples, Sauron never stopped to consider that even the smallest things can change the course of the future. It was a lesson Sauron he unable to learn from.
Sauron fights Gil-Galad, high king of the elves and Elendil, a numenorean. Numenoreans are taller and stronger and longer lives than regular men. Think orcs vs Uruk hai for human vs Numenorean. There’s a big difference. So, an extremely old and extremely fit elf and a super human vs sauron. Sauron knew, at that moment, that he fucked up
I like how your take is like objectively wrong at this point, (at least in terms of book accuracy, based on other comments), but still makes a complete story.
This is just my theory going by the movie. I know it didn't happen that way in the books, but this is how I interpret the movie's version of events.
This is what English teachers want from their high school students even though the actual answer is infinitely simpler lol
I always did well in English. I know this isn't how it went down in the books, but it's my theory on why Sauron acted the way he did towards Isildur in the films when he could've just battered him.
He wanted to chokeslam his ass
I think it’s an artistic liberty in the books he was essentially defeated and on the ground already. Also the thing about Sauron is he lost basically every time he tried to takeover middle earth. His major advantage was being able to wait for long periods of time between defeats.
He was holding his hand up for a high five :(
Just enjoying conversations where the bots derail a discussion with "grond". Love this sub.
GROND
Cuz he had just killed Gil-galad by grabbing his face. Makes sense he’d try it on Isildur too.
Sauron: "Give me your face."
Build me an army worthy of mordor!
"No."
"ISILDUR!"
He was trying to even the odds.
Cuz Fuck Manwë bro.
Let me put it this way. Maiar are so powerful that they don't believe they can lose. The only reason he was defeated was because he put his strength in the ring. That's why even Gandalf was tempted, because if he had is own power in addition to Sauron's he could slay the valar. Maybe even perma kill ainur
Beyond any doubt
HRAAAAAH!
>because if he had is own power in addition to Sauron's he could slay the valar that's simply not true. No Maiar would be able to contend with any of the Valar. They are not even close.
Love when nerds argue 💕
But I'm sure my lvl 99 Charizard would easily burninate him .
Only if he's named Trogdor
He couldn't slay the valar not at all. For starters Aule would probably be able to unmake the ring without putting it in mount doom all by himself. And I don't think he could permanently kill the ainur either.
What is your reasoning behind Gandalf (or anyone else) being able to "slay the Valar" or "perma kill Ainur"? On top of that, Valar are Ainur.
Correct me if I am wrong but didn’t Tolkien in his letters say that Gandalf had a 50% shot at taking Sauron if he had to ring but would be corrupted by the remaining spirit of Sauron in the ring?
Yes.
Sauron and Gandalf are both maia, the valar are a whole other ball game
Cursed be moon and stars above!
And I must follow if I can. The road goes ever on and on, down from the door where it began, now far ahead the road has gone, and I must follow if I can.
Then why didn't Gandalf take the ring for himself? Was he stupid?
Don't tempt me ContAnonima! I dare not take it. Not even to keep it safe. Understand ContAnonima, I would use this Ring from the desire to do good. But through me, it would wield a power too great and terrible to imagine.
Gandalf-bot is too wise
Even the very wise cannot see all ends
Don't fall for his cheap tricks!
He feared he would fall into evil. The maiar are fallible. He didn't want to be corrupted. He knew that if he took it things would only get worse, except this time even leaving middle earth wouldn't save them
Cannot believe people are taking you seriously at this point but I’m so so glad they are
No. When the Valar came to Middle Earth to fight Morgoth they sank most of Beleriand into the sea *by accident*. Sauron with the ring was soundly defeated by Ar-Pharazôn, and only survived using trickery. Then he tricked the Númenóreans into committing suicide by Valar and floated back to Mordor to lick his wounds. Then, still having the One Ring, was defeated *again* by the Last Alliance. The only reason the Valar didn't go head-to-head against Sauron is that they were afraid of the damage *they* would do to the rest of Middle Earth in the process.
[удалено]
Technically nothing can kill a valar no? Even Morgoth is alive just weak and kinda floats in the Unseen world or smth like that.
Yeah, he was thrown out of Arda and is now floating outside, said to return for the dagor dragolath(?) (The battle of all battles).
Would make a fun anime imo
all jokes aside who did you think Sauron was before the reveal
So you have come back? Why have you neglected to report for so long?
Day 1 of top comment deciding which clothes I remove from Sauron
*Guth-tú-nakash.*
He's not grabbing Isildur. He's using the force.
When will the r/BatmanArkham curse end?!?!
Where did the "is he stupid?" Meme orginiate? See it everywhere.
r/BatmanArkham It's a hell hole over there and I love it
Isildur the king Isildur the dick Two can play that game Sauron the dark lord or should I say Sauron the first born what? Sauron the thick snore! Stop it SAURON THE WORST PORN! noooo
What brought the foolish fly to web unsought?
He went in for a finisher, but whiffed and Isildur punished.
Evil doers give stinkpalms, Sauron goes for stinkfaces
he was trying to help him up, its ot his fault isildur cant read body language
You don't know how Gil-galad died do you?
Because he was thinking, "wait a minute, I was supposed to die to the elf king and this guy's dad, but now they're dead. I must be invincible!" But actually I think it's a reference to the fact that book Sauron's main weapons were his hands. His body gives off a f***ton of heat and his hands can basically melt flesh.* The reaching for Isildur is a little contrived in the films given that we just saw Sauron send like 200 guys to Brazil with a few swings of his mace in the preceding shots, but PJ really wanted to set up Sauron losing the ring as the thing that makes him die/lose his physical body rather than Isildur cutting the ring off his lifeless hand like he does in the source material. * A little tidbit I particularly like is that Isildur burns himself when he first picks up the Ring because it's so hot. Compare that to when Gandalf drops the Ring in Frodo's hand after cooking it in the fireplace, at which point he says "it's quite cool," implying that sitting in the fireplace barely heated it at all. This gives you an idea of just how blisteringly hot Sauron's presence was.
Hold out your hand QwantumFizziks, it's quite cool.
Beacause Jackson's movie aren't faithful. Sauron in the books had no weapon and was fighting and destroying enemies with his bare (burning) hands. So he simply tried to kill him.
Where does it say he has no weapon? Theres nothing that implies that Yes gilgald was killed by saurons burning touch, but doesnt mean he had a weapon too. Morgoth himself had a weapon
GROND
Thats the one
This joke format is already overused and annoying. Are you stupid?
No I’m stupid
This whole thread is getting *dangerously* close to "but could Goku...?" territory.
Grond posting
GROND
He definitely just wanted a hug
Why didn’t he just get the eagles to grab Isildur?
Yes.
He's arrogant and cocky. He came in, almost won the battle all by himself. Probably wanted to show off and intimidate him. Thought he was too powerful for Isildur to do anything about it.
So the story could happen. Y'all think too much, ruins your enjoyment of things