You must be forgetting the epic scene where Rosie Cotton destroys Lobelia Sackville-Baggins in a rap battle. Edit - [I wrote a battle](https://www.reddit.com/r/lotrmemes/comments/123pmv2/til_theres_only_one_scene_in_the_trilogy_where/jdwqxvc?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3) just for fun


Which edition is this ?


LOTR 3: Back 2 Tha Shire.


You were SO close in getting the number right


Nah, I deliberately skipped the direct to DVD "LOTR 2: Radagast and the Ents Party"


See, that’s your problem right there. How could you miss RatEP??? It’s the best of the movies!


I mean there was no coherent storyline, Radagast just showed up at the Entmoot with a bunch of shrooms and party plants and everything devolved into slow singing. The first song by the Ents is two days long. Tom Bombadil showed up at some point. Didn't even stop by, just strode by laughing. It was fun, I guess, but I think Peter Jackson just wanted an excuse to get fucked up on set.


*Old Tom Bombadil is a merry fellow, bright blue his jacket is, and his boots are yellow. None has ever caught him yet, for Tom, he is the master: his songs are stronger songs, and his feet are faster.* ^(Type **!TomBombadilSong** for a song or visit [r/GloriousTomBombadil][1] for more merriness) [1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/GloriousTomBombadil/




*Ho! Tom Bombadil, Tom Bombadillo! By water, wood and hill, by the reed and willow, by fire, sun and moon, hearken now and hear us! Come, Tom Bombadil, for our need is near us!* ^(Type **!TomBombadilSong** for a song or visit [r/GloriousTomBombadil][1] for more merriness) [1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/GloriousTomBombadil/


The movie was created with the abuse of the right substance in mind. Two days of ents singing turns into a happy holiday at the green dragon if you do the right thing beforehand.


Lord of the Blings 2: TWO TOWERZZ


Playing in theaters near you on September 11


I thought LOTR 3 was Rivendell Drift


Warwick would be proud


Extended edition:special edition


This made me belly laugh thank you so much


It's played during the end credits when the LOTR fan club names are playing


yeah, but she mentions Frodo and Sam, so it doenst pass the test


Aye, but it doesn't pass the test of whether I'm in it or not! And I'd like to think I'm important enough to be included!


Oh, Sam...


Oh, who, me? What have I done this time?




Eavesdropping? Now that is not a very hobbit-like thing to do! I guess I'm a bit curious by nature. But curiosity is not always a bad thing!


Sambot is AI powered?


Sambot? That's news to me. But I could use a few helpful AI-powered robots around the Shire. I'm sure the Gaffer wouldn't mind one to do all of his chores!


What the f-


Now, now, that's no way for a hobbit to talk! I'm sure there's a better way to express yourself!




Lobelia: Who the hell are you? I'm actually a Baggins, Nobody knows the Cottons except their produce wagons I've waited for too long, Bag End is fucking mine, If you don't like the sound of that, kiss my fat behind. Rosie: Well look who it is, the Sackville bitch, Just here because she thinks old Bilbo's rich You'll never beat me, I have the best tunes, Now accept your defeat and stop stealin' the spoons.


Something very big and possibly quite dangerous.






Do you write for them?


I wish I was that lucky.


I can practically see the spinning backgrounds (that they used to do)


Epic battle for sure, just disappointed you didn't make it pass the Beschdel test like your original comment claimed :(


I liked Sauron vs Finrod better.


Who is the maker of mightiest work?


Nice one! I just asked ChatGPT for a rap battle between saruman and gandalf an am amazed by the results: Verse 1 (Saruman): Listen up, wizard, I'm the real deal, I'm Saruman the White, my power you can't steal. You may be a wizard, but you're second best, I'm the one with the skills, you're just a guest. Verse 1 (Gandalf): You may have the title, but I've got the charm, I'm Gandalf the Grey, I'll do you no harm. Your powers are fading, mine are still strong, I'll beat you in this battle, and prove you wrong. Verse 2 (Saruman): You talk big, but your rhymes are weak, Your spells are feeble, mine are unique. I'll crush you with my power, and leave you in the dust, You're no match for me, you'll see that I must. Verse 2 (Gandalf): You may have the strength, but I've got the heart, I'll take you down, and tear you apart. Your words are empty, your soul is black, I'll defeat you in this battle, and take your power back. Verse 3 (Saruman): You talk of heart, but you're all talk, I'll show you what real power is, I'll make you walk. Your spells are old, mine are refined, I'll take your magic, and make it mine. Verse 3 (Gandalf): You may have the knowledge, but I've got the wit, I'll outsmart you, and make you quit. Your greed has blinded you, you've lost your way, I'll defeat you in this battle, and save the day. Verse 4 (Saruman): You think you're wise, but you're just a fool, I'll break you down, and make you drool. Your power is weak, your magic is small, I'll take your place, and rule them all. Verse 4 (Gandalf): You may have the ambition, but I've got the will, I'll defeat you, and leave you still. Your arrogance will be your downfall, I'll defeat you in this battle, and stand tall. Outro: The battle is over, the winner is clear, Gandalf the Grey, the victor is here. Saruman the White, has lost his throne, Gandalf the Grey, has taken the crown.


There are few who can. The language is that of Mordor, which I will not utter here. In the common tongue it says One Ring to Rule Them All One Ring to find them One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them! This is the One Ring. Forged by the Dark Lord Sauron in the fires of Mount Doom. Taken by Isildur from the hand of Sauron himself.




*Ash nazg durbatulûk, ash nazg gimbatul, ash nazg thrakatulûk, agh burzum-ishi krimpatul.*


Would have been nice if Gandalf ended it with, Gandalf- “… show all of middle earth that I whipped that ass. Tell ‘em Frodope Baggins!” Frodo - You. Shall. Not. Pass.




I think you downloaded the wrong LoTR.


There are 2 scenes then...some woman also thanks eowyn for safely guiding the refugees to Helms Deep


And the mother daughter scene where she asks her to go find help.


Isn’t it a mother and daughter+son. Does that count?


Yes, that counts. The criteria are: 1. There are two women/girls who are named characters 2. They talk to each other 3. They talk about something besides men/boys


Dont they talk about the father and son? “Father says Eothain shouldnt ride (horses name). He is too big for him.” I dont think that scene would pass.


I've never once understood what that little girl said there lol. Thank you for clarifying!


“Father says Eothain shouldn’t riiide [Horse Name]! He is too big for him!”


Garufel was horse


I always thought it was Garulf


Yea you are probably right. It is few months since my last watch.


That's why I watch with subtitles lol


They're looking for *help*, which is obviously talking about a man to come fix it for them. Doesn't pass! /s, that felt gross to type.


Clean your keyboard then


They aren’t all named though?


I guess it goes without saying, but it seems like failing is much more meaningful than success. In the blur of mental images the test conjures, I know I’ve seen movies where women interact without talking about men, and the the portrayal of gender roles still ranges from neutral to problematic.


Pretty much. The test isn’t a measure of the quality of the film or if it is or isn’t sexist. It’s significant because it’s sets the bar so low and still the majority movies fail. It’s only useful for looking at the macro film trends.


Bechdel herself has pointed out repeatedly that it was a test which she applied, as a lesbian, to whether she wanted to go see a movie, not a moral evaluation of a film. But yeah, it’s that no movies fail on a reverse version of the test other than the movie “the Women” from like 1937 or something (great movie though). I think even the cat that comes on screen is female.


Neither is entirely meaningful, though I guess I'd agree that it's a lot more meaningful to have a 2.5 hour hollywood blockbuster where writers could not find any reason to have two women interact. It was originally intended to be a small joke, and later gained notoriety as at least being SOME sort of measuring stick for women's representation in film. As is often pointed out, "Baby Got Back" passes the Bechdel test, but obviously has no merit as a progressive or feminist song. Too often, people find one measuring stick for one very specific metric, and cling to it as a total measure of whether or not something is "good" or "bad".


Ok I don't know that this counts as an argument towards merit, but as a curvy girl who grew up in the late 90's/early 00's when skinny and approaching anorexia was the 'in look' for girls I really liked Baby Got Back because it made me feel idk normal? Like confidence shouldn't need the affirmation of attractiveness from men, but it was more than I got from society at large so it was baseline helpful.


But for the sake of getting LoTR to pass it doesn't count, because only Eowyn has a name.


The original post still works, because the daughter is named. Her mother calls out her name, Freda, in the scene where she is sending her and her brother for aid. The mother doesn't have a name though, so that other scene wouldn't count under the harsher bechdellian standards.


I’d think it does, as it still a conversation between two women and they don’t talk about a man/slash boy. The destination is they don’t talk about a guy, not that they have to do so when there are no guys around


But they do talk about a man. Two men actually. The little girl says that their father says her brother shouldn’t ride the horse cause he is too big for the horse. So that scene doesn’t count.


God those 2 kids always hit me in the feels, especially when you realize the fucking 10 year old boy successfully rode a horse, possibly for days, just to get his sister and the warning out, only letting himself collapse once he'd gotten to the capitol. Im glad they lived


She isn’t named so it doesn’t count. This kid, surprisingly, is named in a previous scene.


The mother (Morwen) is named in the subtitles.


She was busy off-screen barely being in the game before getting shoehorned in as Berethor's love interest in the eleventh hour.


Can't have a second elf and man love story to draw attention away from Aragorn and Arwen, can we?


Beren and Luthien scowling at all four of them from the afterlife.


Sam, do you know the Athelas plant?


I love you for this reference. I also love and will never forget the Eye's appearance in the 11.999th hour of the game.


That was the best part! That's how you know this is Final Fan... I mean Lord of the Rings.


Oh damn! Really pushing the limits there, I wonder if it counts


The requirement that they are named characters isn't part of the original test. It's only sometimes added.


That's Turin's mom's name!


Yep! And Theoden’s mother’s name.


Don't underestimate Tolkien. She not only has a name but it is likely that there is some good back story about her as well


I’m sure JRR Tolkien came up with a backstory for a character invented for a movie that came out after he died


Let's be honest I wouldn't put it past him


That sly bastard, he got us *again*


With a family tree going back 8 generations and a map loosely describing the area she lived in.


Isn't there another scene where she tells her mother that the horse is too big for her brother to ride as she was trying to get them to flee?


Yes, but that might only be in the Extended Edition. I don't know for sure, because I haven't seen the theatrical releases in a long time. However, the line you're talking about might not count. The daughter says that to her mom, but her mom doesn't reply to her, instead telling the son to ride to Edoras and raise the alarm. So it might not count as two women talking with each other. But immediately after that the daughter, Freda, does say, "I don't want to leave. I don't want to go, mom." And her mom, Morwen, replies directly to her, "Freda, I will find you there." And that definitely does count. Although, the entire purpose of the Bechdel Test s that it's an extremely low bar, not a real accomplishment.


I'd say that counts as talking about man


It's been a while since I diagrammed a sentence but isn't the horse the object in that line? If so then they are technically talking about a horse.


They're also referencing the boy, Eothain in relation to the horse, namely that the horse is too big for him. She also said papa said that, so two males were mentioned in the discussion.


Oh yeah I didn't think about that.


Galadriel talks to Arwen about the Ring in a vision Two Towers, scene 10, 2hrs4mins


Oh wow, I didn't remember them talking for 2 hours


And also when the orc says to the other orcs, “the age of men is over”.


But they are talking about men so this unfortunately doesn't pass


This is kinda the epitome of the Bechdel test (while interesting) not actually being of much value as a test of anything. Lotr, for all its virtues, does *not* have a lot of well developed female characters (yes it has a few, but even they have very simple (though awesome) personalities and little screen time together). Yet, incredibly, it *passes* the test by virtue of this little girl’s two scenes totaling about 8 seconds. While on the other hand, MANY many modern movies, with many women with far more layered personalities, fail it just because very few conversations can entirely avoid the mention of several other characters, or especially the protagonist, villain, (one of whom will tend to be male by law of averages if nothing else) or their conflict.


>This is kinda the epitome of the Bechdel test... not actually being of much value as a test of anything. I agree, and I think a lot of (informed) people would. From the [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bechdel_test?wprov=sfla1) summary: >Passing or failing the test is not necessarily indicative of how well women are represented in any specific work. Rather, the test is used as an indicator for the active presence of women in the entire field of film and other fiction, and to call attention to gender inequality in fiction. So basically the Bechdel Test really isn't supposed to be an effective test of representation. It's just highlighting how even when setting a goal that's easy to meet, representation across the industry is very low


Although it can be somewhat useful as a tool for onscreen representation, the bechdel test was never meant to be taken seriously and it was *certainly* never meant to be a litmus test for feminism. Alison Bechdel created this “test” as a joke between [her and her gal pal](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/676/402/c07.png) about how hard they had to look for anything close to representation onscreen. The punchline is that the last movie they saw that passed this test was the original Alien.


The original Alien is like an accidental feminist masterpiece. Iirc Ripley was gonna be a guy and a producer was like "what if girl" and Scott was like "girl? Mhm, girl" and the rest is history ... and James Cameron, who made a feminist movie for the sequel very very on purpose.


Agreed. But Alison Bechdel and her friend were specifically projecting lesbianism onto the girls in Alien. Which honestly? Also agreed 👩‍❤️‍💋‍👩🏳️‍🌈


Everyone's a little gay when cooped up on a ship for ,I think, 8 years. Though to be fair they weren't awake for all of it.


There's another level missing from this discussion. And it's that the test isn't supposed to work to evaluate representation in an individual film, but in the industry as a whole. If a film/trilogy/saga doesn't pass the test, it's no big deal If 99% of the movies coming out of Hollywood don't pass the test, there's a bias Last time I checked a few years ago most films didn't pass the test. But if you reversed it and applied it to men, most movies did. That is the problem the the Brechel Test is supposed to highlight


Thank you, this is the main point people often miss. It’s crazy that’s a simple test like this can be failed by almost all movies and yet people don’t understand why that’s important. It’s not a big deal for LOTR to not be a movie with a lot of women in it, people shouldn’t feel defensive when this is pointed out. It’s just a big deal that this is industry standard, men would never stand for this if the position was reversed.


It’s kinda like BMI lol. Good for a population, terrible on an individual data point.


Exactly. And then you compare to the reverse: "What percentage of movies have at least one scene where two men talk about a subject other than women?" And the answer is "Almost all of them."


Sir Mix-a-lot's Baby got Back also passes the Bechdel test by having the two women at the start of the song talk about another girl's butt. Edit: Not MC Mix-a-Lot.


SIR Mix-a-Lot!!! The man is a member of the knighted nobility. PUT SOME RESPECT ON HIS NAME!


Table be round!


Exactly. And American Pie (despite having a male centric perspective) fails both that and a *reverse* bechdel test, since the dudes literally never have a conversation not about women, simply because that’s what the movie is about.


I don't think anyone actually considers the bechdel test as indicative of anything - it's more like an experiment that demonstrates just how male-centric a lot of media is. Whether a single work does or does not pass it is not, and never has been, relevant to anything.


Exactly this, even the creator of the test doesn't think it should be "the rule of thumb"


Wasn't it "created" via a web comic? Like as part of a joke / social commentary? I think it was anyway. And yeah that just reinforces what you've said. It was never meant to be any kind of rule or metric.


*a web comic* god I'm too old for the youths It was a physical comic printed in 1985


You mean people printed their webcomics out? But isn't that such a waste of paper? Why would they do such a thing grandpa?


Well to save money we'd only print in Black & White. But on Sundays we'd splurge and break out the color printer.


You can Google it, but she made it up pretty much to demonstrate that even with a low bar, most movies don't make the cut. But she does not think that it determines whether or not a movie is "feminist"


It was a straight up paper comic




It’s also to set up a seemingly extremely low bar for passage, only to elicit surprise when it is not met.


Yeah, a movie like Shawshank Redemption failing makes perfect sense. But when like half of the movies in 1994 fail it, highlights something. And no, not an extreme amount of movies set in Men's prisons made in 94.


Yeah like Alien passes but almost doesn't


On the same screen as your comment I'm reading a comment with 6 upvotes that's saying that not passing the bechdel test is a bad sign.


Yeah, the point is "look how many works fall short of this incredibly low bar for presentation". The requirement is so extremely basic, there is no triumph in passing it.


I dont really feel like this is a fair criticism of the bechdel test. Two things i take issue with. One- Yes, movies with poor female representation can still pass the bechdel test. Its not a test of GOOD female representation, but a test of ANY female representation. Its not really an accomplishment to pass it, sure, but it is a huge issue to fail it, unless you are making a movie with very few characters or there is some plot reason for it to be male-dominated. Two- you say many movies can fail just because it is hard to not have conversations about other characters who are often male. However, if you flipped the script, and tested for two named male characters talking about something other than a woman, youd be hard pressed to find a blockbuster, let alone any movie, that fails this test. This exposes the fact that these movies are not failing because its a bad test, but because of poor representation.


It really is werd that movie after movie with these well fleshed out women they almost never talks to another woman, and when she does it's about a guy. It's really is a bit extreme.


Youre spot on. Just having them there isnt good representation, theyve got to have an identity independent of men. Thats what the test is for.


Yeah most films easily just pass it by just having more than 1 woman in the ensemble. Like it's basically a gag about a bare minimum


I think the weirdest part about this test is that many film structures just fail it by default. Anything with a naturally small cast is likely to fail, such as survival movies, especially and most obviously those movies where the protagonist is near utterly isolated. Also any movie which possesses a cast of three or less primary characters and a structure that either largely ignores, doesn't have, or just even neglects to name the secondary characters is likely to fail as well.


Except the three primary characters could all be women, or two women and one man, and yet that hardly ever happens. That's the point.


I think you’re kind of missing the point of the Bechdel Test. It’s not really a measure of how “feminist” an individual movie is. There are plenty of reasons why two women may never speak to one another across the length of a film, and a film with only or mostly male speaking roles is not inherently bad. The Bechdel Test is meant to say something about representation across all films by setting a very low bar and showing the ridiculous proportion that fail to clear it. It’s to show a recognizable pattern.


> However, if you flipped the script, and tested for two named male characters talking about something other than a woman, youd be hard pressed to find a blockbuster, let alone any movie, that fails this test. I wouldnt be surprised if many romance movies failed that reversed test. Very easy to have conversations between male characters default to at least mention the female love interest as a topic when the entire movie is primarily about how they get together. Not to mention that a large chunk of conversations in such a movie are naturally going to be between the two lovers. Also without being a movie buff I would bet Kill Bill Volume 1 is either not passing the reverse test or extremely close to not passing it simply because there arent a whole lot of conversations not directly involving or about the bride.


I’m neither an expert in film analysis or feminism, but the obvious use of the Bechdel test, to my eyes, is as the opposite of the “If I had a nickel every time X happened, I’d have 2 nickels. It’s not a lot but it’s weird it’s happened twice.” meme. Like, sure, the test doesn’t even begin to show you whether or not a film is good (LotR would still be a masterpiece without the above scene) and it also doesn’t show you if a film has vaguely feminist credentials (you could make an absolutely abhorrently sexist film that featured lots of women having conversations). **But** if you think about the test, it’s such a low bar that it’s SO weird that we don’t have almost every film pass it, isn’t it? Think about films that aren’t set on the front line of a world war. Why, as a society, were we trained to accept it as normal that women wouldn’t have much value to add to a film; why are we not interested in the conversations they have with each other when most films thrive on male conversation? The test doesn’t tell you much about the value of a given film. It’s meant to highlight just how weird it is that so many fail it.


I'd be curious about a Bechdel to Reverse Bechdel comparison chart. Certain types of films (Romance) seem primed to fail the test as nearly every conversation is going to tend to be about a protagonist of some sort. So there's never going to be 100% passage. But if Bechdel and reverse Bechdel evened out that would probably indicate equality pretty well.


The Bechdel test comes from a fucking webcomic and any dude who has an issue with it tries to make it sound like bad science because of this and that. Ffs, it was a tongue in cheek strip pointing out how devoid of fair representation women get in narrative and yet when it’s cited, people immediately get defensive and try to poke holes in it (again - a joke from a comic that just happened to make a good point).


I always think of Jane Austen when someone raises this topic, who was kinda the opposite. In all her books, there are never two guys talking together, alone. According to herself, it's because she was unable to imagine what men talked about when they were alone. I don't think it really matters at all, I love all her books.


The Bechdel test isn't some super intricate test to measure how feminist a piece of media is. It's just the absolutely lowest possible bar that it can cross. Yes, there's feminist media that doesn't pass the test and non-feminist media that does. But it's not meant to be hyper accurate, just to show how many pieces of media are centered around men and can't even cross this one bar.


That's the point, it's a shockingly low barrier that a shit on of movies fail to pass. If the test was having two male characters have a conversation that isn't about a women almost every movie ever made would pass.


The point isn't "it is a good thing for a movie to pass it". Obviously it's fine to have movies that fixate on male characters. The place where it becomes informative is when we take a broader look and say "how many of our movies are able to pass this". If you look at a year of movies and of the top 50 movies, 2 pass the test, that gives an indication of "hmmm, we really don't seem to be caring about female perspectives as a society". Again, any one of those movies is fine and it's not a judgment to say they don't have woemn. The issue is when all or nearly all of our movies fail it and what it says about the movies we are interested in making and viewing. If a company hires a white male employee, that's obviously fine. There are plenty of good white men around. But if you're a company of 1000 people and it's all white men, questions come up about "Do you just think only white men can be good???". Same deal there. When a trend runs bad, it starts to reflect badly on your priorities.


Eowyn: Try some of this stew, I made it myself.... Townswoman: Oh, quit the "pick-me" games!


That would pass. Also if she continued in disappointment that she liked the stew and was happy with it


I don’t know there’s an implication of seeking a lover/man in there


Passing the test is vibe


Depends if the recipe calls for it


Would it? Don't both women speaking have to be named characters? Although, knowing Tolkien the towns woman would probably have a name and a whole life history somewhere


Nope. Just two women period


Oof, that's a lower bar than I thought


Fun fact: the song "Baby got back" by Sir Mix-A-Lot also technically passes the Bechdel test.


I had to think for a second and then was like, he’s got a point


It doesn't matter. Even Alison Bechdel (who never expected the test to become such a big deal) has said you can make feminist films that don't pass it: > “It’s not conclusive or definitive. It’s not meant as a serious metric,” she explained. “You can certainly have a feminist movie where there’s only one woman — or no women.” Also, and perhaps more importantly: > Bechdel said the test’s enduring value lies in the discussions it provokes, but she warned not to let it stand as any sort of final judgment. [Source](https://www.vulture.com/2015/04/bechdel-test-creator-surprised-by-its-longevity.html)


Isn’t it also more a measure of the field than any one piece? Given that any one movie can pass or fail without necessarily being representative or not, looking at anything smaller than a genre quickly loses credibility, while examining large groups gives pretty significant figures.


I think it’s greatest value is to show the surprising amount of mainstream films that don’t pass this simple test




The Bechdel Test is kinda hit or miss when it comes to represention of woman. Like, this is the thing that passes it, but meanwhile "No Man Can Kill Me."


There's also the woman in Rohan who puts her daughter on a horse and tells her to make for Helm's Deep


She tells her *son* to take himself and his sister to *Edoras*.


Narrator: *The horse had no idea where Edoras was.*


Then her daughter cries to her about not wanting to leave, she comforts her for a sentence or two. Morwen and Freida.


I think the daughter says the horse is too big for the brother to handle.


Doesn’t count because it was a male horse


How can you tell?


Just trust me, pisspot. I have my ways


Alright then, keep your secrets


>Papa says Eothain must not ride Gerulf! He is too big for him!


That's this girls mother


Pretty sure the girl's mother wasn't a horse, friendo.


Ahh, the ol' Reddit [Switcharoo](https://www.reddit.com/r/tumblr/comments/122juo5/comment/jdrngwr/?context=3).


Hold my horse, I’m going in!


I wouldn't call that passing the Bechdel test as Freida tells what happened offscreen and shushing someone is not conversation. Added on to that, in this case and when Freida's mom was telling them to run, the conversation involved the Wild Men and included Eothain. As for the women thanking Eowyn, I wouldn't count saying thank you followed by a nod "conversation" either.


This should be way up higher. Even if you leave out the _"do the women have names?"_ part I don't think it would count. I think the question about the women having _names_ is actually a necessary addition. Otherwise almost any movie could pass if there are random, female extras talking to each other. And that doesn't match the general idea of the test.


Pass with a D- 😂


I feel like Wikipedia's description of the Bechdel test is a little misleading. It was created less as a measure of how well a work portrays women and more as a measure of whether or not a work would even appeal to women, with the comic strip it originates from using the test as the setup for a pumchline/revelation that most hollywood films are made exclusively for men.


In the Hobbit (book) there are literally no named female characters


Are you telling me Tolkien left out Tauriel?


Belladonna Took. Literally the second character to be named


She appears purely as a name (a picture on the mantelpiece iirc), not as an actual character present in the story.


She's only there for a chapter or so - but would you count Goldberry?


Goldberry's from LotR, which overall has a much betetr track record with female characters as well- there's Eowyn, Arwen, Galadriel, etc.


Here's my pretty lady! Here's my Goldberry clothed all in silver-green with flowers in her girdle! Is the table laden? I see yellow cream and honeycomb, and white bread, and butter; milk, cheese, and green herbs and ripe berries gathered. Is that enough for us? Is the supper ready? ^(Type **!TomBombadilSong** for a song or visit [r/GloriousTomBombadil][1] for more merriness) [1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/GloriousTomBombadil/


*Here's my pretty maiden! You shall come home with me! The table is all laden: yellow cream, honeycomb, white bread and butter; roses at the window-sill and peeping round the shutter. You shall come under Hill! Never mind your mother in her deep weedy pool: there you'll find no lover!* ^(Type **!TomBombadilSong** for a song or visit [r/GloriousTomBombadil][1] for more merriness) [1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/GloriousTomBombadil/


Goldberry isn’t in The Hobbit, i don’t think


Isn't gimli a woman? (I was kidding)


Generally that's a fun idea. Unfortunately he introduces himself and is introduced numerous times as Gimli son of Gloin or Gimli Gloin's son, firmly placing him as a male character as unlike within the discworld dwarves seem to consider themselves male or female and do certainly not take affront at the idea of being gendered.


She was just masking her identity like Eowyn did. Her gift from Galadriel is actually a really powerful moment of lesbian representation.


Suddenly Gimli talking to Eowyn about female dwarves makes a lot more sense! LOL


Dwarves speak Khuzdul natively, maybe there are no gendered nouns and Gimli is unclear about the distinction between son and daughter. In Romance languages, the word for *son*, especially plural *sons*, doesn't specify gender. If you were just talking in general about someone's child, without knowledge of their gender, you'd say their son.


Side note, LotR with Gimli replaced with Cheery Littlebottom would be a cinematic masterpiece.


I love the idea that Gimli just like "wait did you guys not know I'm a woman?"


Eowyn quickly shushing her for not talking about a man lmao


[LOTR but with female interactions only](https://youtu.be/wW4fLBD5MPs)


Is that talking?


Fun fact the original Willow movie has a scene with two old ladies wrecking each other


Lord of the Rings is a story for *men*! *Childish men*! /s


Not sure why *women screaming in cave together* isn’t included. /s


I think I didn't feel the absence of female leads in LotR because of how holistic and genuine the male leads are. There's no shortage of emotional nutrition in these movies, everyone can be a role model in some capacity. Except Denethor.


I mean, it is a set of movies primarily revolving around war and combat against Sauron in a medieval-style setting. War has traditionally been fought almost entirely with men due to being physically stronger and faster. They spend the vast majority of the trilogy on the move, either towards conflict or escaping conflict.


And yet the theme of the LOTR is about the strength of various people coming together and uniting, especially the overlooked people, to achieve something great. The war of the ring wasn’t won because big strong men rode out and fought a war on their own but rather it was won when everyone stood together and the people who had seemed small, overlooked or forgotten turned out to shape the world. Having women play a broader part in this story would have fit very well with the themes Tolkien was going for.


And the greatest martial feat performed on the field of battle is by a woman.


I feel like a lot of people skip right over this. Eowyn killed both The Witch King AND his fell beast. In terms of the movies The Witch King was the second biggest bad, and the biggest bad wasn't even slain in combat.