I am not sure where Slate church is theologically or how they operate now, but I was involved with them when they were Embassy church (several years ago now). I was also only involved for about a year, and left shortly after they rebranded to Slate. Based on my experiences, I wouldn't classify Slate as a cult, but I would say that they are more conservative/fundamentalist in terms of theology and it is really easy to get swept up in all of it.
The main reason I left was because I felt that Embassy/Slate was not being authentic and fair with how they recruit individuals. When I was involved, a big part of the messaging or marketing was "Welcome Home"- promoting the idea that all we're welcome, not matter who we are or what we believed in. However, through conversations with church leadership and other members, it became clear that they weren't all that accepting, and in order to volunteer or grow as a leader in the Church you had to fit a specific vision. The leadership was truly the inner circle of the church and it felt quite exclusive and unapproachable at times. I also felt like they asked for funds/donations/tithing quite aggressively, and it was uncomfortable at times. Ultimately, Slate has big "mega church" vibes but is not yet considered a mega church.
All that to say, that was just my experience- I know of a few individuals who have stayed in the Church and have had a great experience. Personally, I've realized that theologically, I align more with the United Church of Canada rather than the conservative "non-denominational" churches that have been popping up with more frequency.
I reached out the them pre-covid (2018-2019ish, can't remember exactly) and this was my experience. I had no desire to join the church officially but I was very interested in helping them reach the community through volunteering as I liked some of their programs. Unfortunately we never really got past the initial discussions of my beliefs, or lack thereof.
Some churches take charity work very seriously and do a lot with very little. I have worked in nonprofits and I have seen how far some try to stretch their funds and certain churches and certain related programs do far more than anyone else and I have to respect that.
They already have established outreach programs and you can share values without sharing a belief system. I was just looking to help out in the community.
I've volunteered at many churches and don't hold religious beliefs. I do however believe Jesus was a swell guy whose teachings oughta be given a closer look by a lot of churches and church-goers.
Ah! They're formerly Embassy church! Back when I worked at one of the local universities certain members of the church had to be banned from campus for being a little too aggressive with their proselytising.
Their leadership is cray-cray and has a tendancy to attract others of a similar mindset.
Maybe recruit was the wrong choice of words here but it is typical in a lot of Christian denominations and Churches to proselytize to those outside of their church in order to gain new members. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but some people or Churches can get aggressive with it or be doing it for not the right reasons.
What!!!??? How did they blacklist you? Did they just literally say don’t come back?
Also, do you know the YouTuber beth grace Moore? Her husband Jared is a pastor at this church and she’s always talking about it but recently her verbiage is making it seem like it is some sort of MLM or cult
I used to go there but left about a year ago because I realized that the leadership didn't align with my values anymore, just to put it briefly, so I don't really know what the vibe there is like lately. I know some really lovely people who still go there, but it just didn't align with me anymore.
I'm curious, if you don't mind sharing, if you had any experiences or have seen anything that gave you that kind of impression of Slate? Other than it simply being religion, which I know there are lots of varying viewpoints on.
I watch a YouTuber named Beth Grace Moore- her husband is Jared and he is a “pastor” at this church. She recently uploaded a video of a staff retreat and certain words that she says in her videos make it seem like it is a cult. For example , why does a church need to recruit members? Or why would the Slye church leaders go to Vancouver to meet with other church leaders from other churches to expand? This just all seems odd. Almost like a MLM.
It’s also questionable how they afford their lifestyle when she is a SAHM and he is a pastor. Seems like an expensive lifestyle to live on what a pastor would usually make. I saw their house on HouseSigma and it was just under $1m. They are renovating their basement, purchased all new furniture, and are now talking about hiring a landscaper for their backyard. Just kinda sketchy
Not affiliated with Slate, but have been there a few times in the past and am involved in another local church. I can answer some of these questions:
**Why does a church need to recruit members?**
Ultimately, Christians want other people to become Christians. Firstly, Jesus gives us the "Great Commission": "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you." Secondly, it's just logical - if we're right, we are doing the best thing possible for that other person.
Now, note that I said "become Christians" - not come to our specific church. It may be the case for Slate, can't say for sure, that this gets twisted into a "grow my own church" numbers game. Any good church will be happy if someone finds a church home at another good church. A more "cultish" church will be upset if someone goes to another, similar local church.
**Why would the Slye church leaders go to Vancouver to meet with other church leaders from other churches to expand?**
Conferences are common in basically all jobs, but especially ministry, because ministry tends to be very isolating and you often don't have many co-workers. It can be very nice to meet other similar people doing similar jobs and just talk about the challenges and successes you're having. I can't speak to the quality of this specific conference, and there definitely are some that are kinda "MLM-ish", but mostly these are good and healthy places for a pastor to be going to occasionally.
**Finances**
Churches do tend to try to compensate their pastors fairly and not have them be poor - the apostle Paul talks about it a few times, eg. "the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel."
In practice, this means that pastoring a church often results in a standard middle-class wage (think 50k-120k depending on a host of factors). I don't know how much this pastor gets paid, but the way I see it there is a few options to explain what you're saying (if it's accurate):
1. He's being paid quite a bit more than I'd expect - probably not what I'd want from my pastor
2. They are somehow getting financial help from family/inheritence (see this a lot around here)
3. There is a second job being worked that you don't know about
4. They are living outside their means
For sure. For me it primarily had to do with a lot of things that happened during the pandemic. I will preface this by saying that I don't believe everyone who attends or is involved with Slate Church holds these views and that there are some really solid people who go there, but it was what I saw in some leadership members that I didn't feel comfortable associating with anymore.
I personally took covid very seriously as I have a severely immunocompromised family member and also just simply didn't want to get myself or anyone else sick. Around fall of last year, when Ontario still had masking regulations and capacity limits in place because of omicron, I noticed that there were more and more people simply not wearing masks at services, and eventually the capacity limits stopped too, but this was before the public health guidelines were relaxed. My partner and I didn't feel comfortable going in person anymore and tried to have a productive conversation about it, but were met with the response that we should just "meet people where they are at" and that "the important thing is that they are going to church." It felt like we were being gaslit for being concerned during a public health crisis.
There were also several extremely problematic things said by a leadership member about vaccinations and about covid in general, both in person and on a personal social media. This person also made a lengthy Instagram story with several problematic comments about the truckers convoy, including how we should "listen to both sides" of the issue and how racism didn't need to be brought into it because bringing race into social issues was a sign of "intellectual laziness."
I'm all for meeting folks where they're at in life, but it turned into a blanket statement that was used to brush over harmful behaviour at the expense of those being harmed.
Again, this is not at all to say that everyone associated with this church holds those views. But for me, I understand my faith to be built on the basis of loving your neighbour and I just didn't see that reflected in those actions anymore.
I went twice against my will (happy wife happy life) at Christmas time several years ago, and found the whole thing eye opening and weird. Background: I grew up in the Catholic school system (and going to Catholic church until I was old enough to say no more).
I found the pastor and leaders.. too excited and just too into it. Megachurch brainwashed excited. Hands in the air, eyes closed. Each time when leaving after the service the pastor was super aggressive at the exit wanting to talk to us and insisting we come back.
Went there a handful of times (a few times when they were still embassy at laurier and then once or twice while they were slate) that was more or less the wake up call/acceptance despite my upbringing I had nothing in common with church goers in general (especially those which were "with the times") so I stopped entirely
For those wondering about recruitment it is used by pretty much all churches. Sometimes it is direct or indirect.
Some members are encouraged to find more people to join the church. Usually it is under the guise of "the more people who join, means the more people can hear the message and the more people can be saved!" The reality is the more people who put their asses in the pews, the more donations and tithings are provided to the church. This means the church can do more things to get more people to join, pay the head persons of the church more money and have a bigger expenses account for use by those members.
Cults are more aggressive about it though. They like to convince people to join and participate in the church, versus churches that invite others to join. Using fear, community and comradery as selling points to get people to join. Well established churches do not have to do this. People come and go as they please and sometimes members bring other people and families in who are looking for a new place to worship.
I used to go to church three times a week and went to religious school for most of my life. I do not attend any churches anymore due to the constant hypocrisy I have seen, heard and experienced first hand. It sounds like Slate is a church run by people who are more interested in the financial gain of it than the benefit of the community. A real church would invite people to come, not talk down to people, not tell them what to do, include everyone and do their best to help the community as much as they can. The ones that don't are not churches for the right reasons.
P.S. If you find out there is a church that meets in school gymnasiums in the region, and surrounding area, and they won't really tell you the name of said church, stay away. Stay far far far away and never attend. If you think that Slate might be cult based, you have no idea.
>If you find out there is a church that meets in school gymnasiums
I grew up in a "church" that did exactly that. Absolutely no association with them anymore but I'm curious if you are referring to the same church (I doubt it because the former cult is now very changed and considered by all to be mainstream Christianity.) Would you share the name of the "church" you are referring to? DM me if you'd like.
I am not sure where Slate church is theologically or how they operate now, but I was involved with them when they were Embassy church (several years ago now). I was also only involved for about a year, and left shortly after they rebranded to Slate. Based on my experiences, I wouldn't classify Slate as a cult, but I would say that they are more conservative/fundamentalist in terms of theology and it is really easy to get swept up in all of it. The main reason I left was because I felt that Embassy/Slate was not being authentic and fair with how they recruit individuals. When I was involved, a big part of the messaging or marketing was "Welcome Home"- promoting the idea that all we're welcome, not matter who we are or what we believed in. However, through conversations with church leadership and other members, it became clear that they weren't all that accepting, and in order to volunteer or grow as a leader in the Church you had to fit a specific vision. The leadership was truly the inner circle of the church and it felt quite exclusive and unapproachable at times. I also felt like they asked for funds/donations/tithing quite aggressively, and it was uncomfortable at times. Ultimately, Slate has big "mega church" vibes but is not yet considered a mega church. All that to say, that was just my experience- I know of a few individuals who have stayed in the Church and have had a great experience. Personally, I've realized that theologically, I align more with the United Church of Canada rather than the conservative "non-denominational" churches that have been popping up with more frequency.
I reached out the them pre-covid (2018-2019ish, can't remember exactly) and this was my experience. I had no desire to join the church officially but I was very interested in helping them reach the community through volunteering as I liked some of their programs. Unfortunately we never really got past the initial discussions of my beliefs, or lack thereof.
What beliefs did you NOT have that they wanted you to have? Can you give some examples
I just don't believe in a god, or jesus.
That'll do it
So then why would you be volunteering at a church haha
Some churches take charity work very seriously and do a lot with very little. I have worked in nonprofits and I have seen how far some try to stretch their funds and certain churches and certain related programs do far more than anyone else and I have to respect that.
They already have established outreach programs and you can share values without sharing a belief system. I was just looking to help out in the community.
I've volunteered at many churches and don't hold religious beliefs. I do however believe Jesus was a swell guy whose teachings oughta be given a closer look by a lot of churches and church-goers.
Ah! They're formerly Embassy church! Back when I worked at one of the local universities certain members of the church had to be banned from campus for being a little too aggressive with their proselytising. Their leadership is cray-cray and has a tendancy to attract others of a similar mindset.
Why does a church need to recruit people? Is this a pyramid scheme?
Maybe recruit was the wrong choice of words here but it is typical in a lot of Christian denominations and Churches to proselytize to those outside of their church in order to gain new members. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but some people or Churches can get aggressive with it or be doing it for not the right reasons.
Man I miss when embassy was a thing
Me too. Hadn't thought about them in a minute. *Holy gods I'm old now.*
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What!!!??? How did they blacklist you? Did they just literally say don’t come back? Also, do you know the YouTuber beth grace Moore? Her husband Jared is a pastor at this church and she’s always talking about it but recently her verbiage is making it seem like it is some sort of MLM or cult
I used to go there but left about a year ago because I realized that the leadership didn't align with my values anymore, just to put it briefly, so I don't really know what the vibe there is like lately. I know some really lovely people who still go there, but it just didn't align with me anymore. I'm curious, if you don't mind sharing, if you had any experiences or have seen anything that gave you that kind of impression of Slate? Other than it simply being religion, which I know there are lots of varying viewpoints on.
I watch a YouTuber named Beth Grace Moore- her husband is Jared and he is a “pastor” at this church. She recently uploaded a video of a staff retreat and certain words that she says in her videos make it seem like it is a cult. For example , why does a church need to recruit members? Or why would the Slye church leaders go to Vancouver to meet with other church leaders from other churches to expand? This just all seems odd. Almost like a MLM. It’s also questionable how they afford their lifestyle when she is a SAHM and he is a pastor. Seems like an expensive lifestyle to live on what a pastor would usually make. I saw their house on HouseSigma and it was just under $1m. They are renovating their basement, purchased all new furniture, and are now talking about hiring a landscaper for their backyard. Just kinda sketchy
Not affiliated with Slate, but have been there a few times in the past and am involved in another local church. I can answer some of these questions: **Why does a church need to recruit members?** Ultimately, Christians want other people to become Christians. Firstly, Jesus gives us the "Great Commission": "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you." Secondly, it's just logical - if we're right, we are doing the best thing possible for that other person. Now, note that I said "become Christians" - not come to our specific church. It may be the case for Slate, can't say for sure, that this gets twisted into a "grow my own church" numbers game. Any good church will be happy if someone finds a church home at another good church. A more "cultish" church will be upset if someone goes to another, similar local church. **Why would the Slye church leaders go to Vancouver to meet with other church leaders from other churches to expand?** Conferences are common in basically all jobs, but especially ministry, because ministry tends to be very isolating and you often don't have many co-workers. It can be very nice to meet other similar people doing similar jobs and just talk about the challenges and successes you're having. I can't speak to the quality of this specific conference, and there definitely are some that are kinda "MLM-ish", but mostly these are good and healthy places for a pastor to be going to occasionally. **Finances** Churches do tend to try to compensate their pastors fairly and not have them be poor - the apostle Paul talks about it a few times, eg. "the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel." In practice, this means that pastoring a church often results in a standard middle-class wage (think 50k-120k depending on a host of factors). I don't know how much this pastor gets paid, but the way I see it there is a few options to explain what you're saying (if it's accurate): 1. He's being paid quite a bit more than I'd expect - probably not what I'd want from my pastor 2. They are somehow getting financial help from family/inheritence (see this a lot around here) 3. There is a second job being worked that you don't know about 4. They are living outside their means
Do you mind elaborating on why the leadership doesn’t align with your values?
For sure. For me it primarily had to do with a lot of things that happened during the pandemic. I will preface this by saying that I don't believe everyone who attends or is involved with Slate Church holds these views and that there are some really solid people who go there, but it was what I saw in some leadership members that I didn't feel comfortable associating with anymore. I personally took covid very seriously as I have a severely immunocompromised family member and also just simply didn't want to get myself or anyone else sick. Around fall of last year, when Ontario still had masking regulations and capacity limits in place because of omicron, I noticed that there were more and more people simply not wearing masks at services, and eventually the capacity limits stopped too, but this was before the public health guidelines were relaxed. My partner and I didn't feel comfortable going in person anymore and tried to have a productive conversation about it, but were met with the response that we should just "meet people where they are at" and that "the important thing is that they are going to church." It felt like we were being gaslit for being concerned during a public health crisis. There were also several extremely problematic things said by a leadership member about vaccinations and about covid in general, both in person and on a personal social media. This person also made a lengthy Instagram story with several problematic comments about the truckers convoy, including how we should "listen to both sides" of the issue and how racism didn't need to be brought into it because bringing race into social issues was a sign of "intellectual laziness." I'm all for meeting folks where they're at in life, but it turned into a blanket statement that was used to brush over harmful behaviour at the expense of those being harmed. Again, this is not at all to say that everyone associated with this church holds those views. But for me, I understand my faith to be built on the basis of loving your neighbour and I just didn't see that reflected in those actions anymore.
** Gets popcorn ready** All religons are cults
Religions are cults with political power is how I heard it lol
I prefer my God not be able to speak to me 😂 /s
But can we also say all cults are religions???
Yeup
Yes
I'm just into sects.
I went twice against my will (happy wife happy life) at Christmas time several years ago, and found the whole thing eye opening and weird. Background: I grew up in the Catholic school system (and going to Catholic church until I was old enough to say no more). I found the pastor and leaders.. too excited and just too into it. Megachurch brainwashed excited. Hands in the air, eyes closed. Each time when leaving after the service the pastor was super aggressive at the exit wanting to talk to us and insisting we come back.
It's pretty culty to be honest, I know a lot of people who go there and agree that the way they all talk about it feels of MLM tactics
Went there a handful of times (a few times when they were still embassy at laurier and then once or twice while they were slate) that was more or less the wake up call/acceptance despite my upbringing I had nothing in common with church goers in general (especially those which were "with the times") so I stopped entirely
Not mutually exclusive. You could also call it a fan club and their club house. /s
I thought all religions were cults
Aren't all churches?
OP, if you have to ask "is this church a cult" you already know the answer: it is. Just be thankful you can recognize the warning signs of a cult.
After looking at their website and YouTube I’d say yes 😭😭
I thought the same
For those wondering about recruitment it is used by pretty much all churches. Sometimes it is direct or indirect. Some members are encouraged to find more people to join the church. Usually it is under the guise of "the more people who join, means the more people can hear the message and the more people can be saved!" The reality is the more people who put their asses in the pews, the more donations and tithings are provided to the church. This means the church can do more things to get more people to join, pay the head persons of the church more money and have a bigger expenses account for use by those members. Cults are more aggressive about it though. They like to convince people to join and participate in the church, versus churches that invite others to join. Using fear, community and comradery as selling points to get people to join. Well established churches do not have to do this. People come and go as they please and sometimes members bring other people and families in who are looking for a new place to worship. I used to go to church three times a week and went to religious school for most of my life. I do not attend any churches anymore due to the constant hypocrisy I have seen, heard and experienced first hand. It sounds like Slate is a church run by people who are more interested in the financial gain of it than the benefit of the community. A real church would invite people to come, not talk down to people, not tell them what to do, include everyone and do their best to help the community as much as they can. The ones that don't are not churches for the right reasons. P.S. If you find out there is a church that meets in school gymnasiums in the region, and surrounding area, and they won't really tell you the name of said church, stay away. Stay far far far away and never attend. If you think that Slate might be cult based, you have no idea.
>If you find out there is a church that meets in school gymnasiums I grew up in a "church" that did exactly that. Absolutely no association with them anymore but I'm curious if you are referring to the same church (I doubt it because the former cult is now very changed and considered by all to be mainstream Christianity.) Would you share the name of the "church" you are referring to? DM me if you'd like.
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I believe in God and am Catholic. But this doesn’t seem like a church it seems like a MLM