They're NATO members, won't happen


Why?We Romanians should kick out all nato troops, including our own army (since we are part of nato) and wait for the russian troops to come defend us from what they might do to us if we oppose /s


Don't forget to leave the EU too! The Lisbon treaty has a ironclad mutual defence clause. Wouldn't want those pesky Germans or French interfering with Vladdy's plans.


Also break down any fortifications and walls that might inhibit the Russian armies hug of friendship


Build bridges not walls


Daddy Vlad wants Bessarabia


He is Vamputin.


Yeah leaving the EU is great. Mmmm the sweet smell of all my sovereignty. /S


Yeah it's working real well here, queues at the ports are now only 10 hours


And all that lovely space on supermarket shelves now that used to be cluttered with food. Same with my wife’s asthma medication, we can only pick up a week or 2 at a time due to the shortages. So much more room in the fridge!


Empty fridges consume less energy which is helpful when dealing with our crippling energy bills. Me, I'm sitting here in the dark eating cold tinned pears and humming 'Rule Britannia' over and over again.


There’s that plucky blitz spirit we’re all so famous for! Thank goodness we have all that newfound sovereignty to keep us warm this winter!


You think you're the only ones who have it bad? I recently wanted to try some Terry's Chocolate Orange and found they cost €5 here compared to £1 in the UK. I'm still bitter about it. Honestly, I just wish somebody at the PR firm had fucked up and they had called it Brileave or something. Nobody would have voted for that.


I’m over here with my furnace set at 60°F (15°C) when it’s 15°F (-9°C) outside, just so I can afford MY FATHER’s $350 a month prescription. But just think of all that freedom…. Red white and blue everything, eagles shrieking overhead, baseball, apple pie… Jealous? Yeah, I thought so.


But no foreigners in the fridge either! Brexit works! /s


Jeez, Romania: if you weren't lookin' like you were going to defend yourselves from a foreign invasion then Russia wouldn't have to invade you! It's your own fault, really.


This is how it looks to be honest. Russia has been claiming from the beginning they are not invading, so I don't understand what is this whole fuss about either they lied from the begging or were "since we already have the troops here.. should we invade now?"


> Russia has been claiming from the beginning they are not invading They also claimed they weren't invading Crimea.


They also claim they didn't shoot down a passenger plane over eastern Ukraine carrying hundreds of civilians.


"No, no, those are just young Russian men on... vacation. Yes. Vacation. What, you think they are in the military just because they are within Russian conscription age, and have Russian military issued rifles, and have social media posts where they openly say they are part of the Russian army? Clearly you're just anti-Russian. Maybe you should be careful that Russians don't 'take a vacation' in *your* country."




The ideal situation for Russia (apart from NATO folding like a deck chair and everyone acquiescing to Vlad's demands), I'd reckon, is to let the situation get out of hand "naturally". It's only gonna be a matter of time before some tense soldier slings an artillery round by accident across the DMZ, and then it's on. Things like this are bound to happen with such a buildup. Russia would love that; hell, they'll probably plan it. They've done this false flag bullshit before, bombing their own citizens to justify war (and electing Vlad).


I remember the reports of troops without insignias “shooting and provoking” the Russian army before Crimea was invaded.


You know, I have a lot of disdain for my (Canadian) government/politicians for all the bullshit they do and refuse to do and all the pandering and shit. But boy am I glad they dont resort to "Blow up your own citizens to get elected" kind of strategies


I’m expecting some false flag activity as well to light this powder keg


I dunno. A real ass war starting with NATO would be catastrophic for Russia. They don't really have the resources to handle fighting that large a war for any significant duration and their military is frankly dwarfed by what NATO could bring to bear. Even if you're taking about just starting a fight with Ukraine, it'd be Afghanistan all over again except with actual national unity. Ukraine has already acknowledged that they lack the military power to fight Russia in a protracted war, but they can fight for a while then flee to the hills, so to speak, and engage in guerilla war for a long as it takes. Even if all NATO does is provide supplies for the Ukrainian forces, they could make it nigh impossible for Russia to actuality exploit any of Ukrain's land and resources


Not if attention is divided by China also pulling some shit like invading Taiwan. They may be planning for this to be a total cluster fuck.


Yeah. It was ~30 years ago that the Soviet Union, in a much stronger position than Russia is today, fought some ragtag militias in Afghanistan, a smaller and less developed country than Ukraine, and lost. Sure, Afghanistan has much worse terrain than Ukraine, and sure, Russia will probably win conventional battles, but this is the kind of war that will bleed the Russian economy white.






Hey, just leave your country completely undefended please. We won't do anything bad, we promise. -Putin, probably


This is such a bad idea. I don’t know why Putin even wants this… it’s like a man wanting a second family… too much work and effort for little in return.


That’s the point. They’re bargaining in bad faith.


Good luck with that Vlad.


Putin: In that case, I want an ice cream cone NATO: No


Russia wants to create a divide between what they see as their buffer countries and the EU. There is no way EU or NATO will let them do this. Both Romania and Bulgaria are in the EU and NATO, so this is obviously just a play. They know this will never happen. If any concessions are made on any nation's sovereignty we might as well put our hands up and let Kremlin tell everyone what to do.


Maybe the Mongols want all of Asia back, too. The oligarchs in Russia like their financial successes from their interactions with the west too much to throw it all away.


If the City of London had any balls, they'd freeze the shit out of the oligarchs' assets. Bam. Vlad would feel so depressed about it all he'd shot himself in the back of the head three times and then go for a drive in a car with faulty brakes.


Out a window.


Asset freezing comes when Russia actually crosses some significant red lines. For now 8 (or so) planes with NLAWs are alright. It's a very good message.


Ironically, Mongolia once asked for membership in the Soviet Union, and Russia said no.


Russia lacks the hard currency and solid supply lines to reclaim the past glory of the USSR. Vladimir can’t afford to hurt the oligarch base. This is all about spin


Vladimir and LAVROV are pensioners, of the old guard who are gone soon. The new generation does not even respect them. It is just a matter of time until they take down the rest of Putin's circle and corrupt Oligarchs.


Putin is just trolling. None of this is about legitimate security concerns for Russia, anyway. They know, just like everyone else, no NATO country will decide to invade Russia. The only thing that NATO membership changes for these countries is they cannot be pushed around by Russia.


The entire point is to distract Russian people from internal issues and infighting to unify them against common enemy (NATO)


Probably COVID deaths. They're the country with the largest excess mortality in the world. https://mobile.twitter.com/ArielKarlinsky/status/1477531141510946818


But also economic problems. Just ten years ago, Russia was actually richer per capita than eastern European countries Bulgaria and Romania. Russia is falling behind more and more. Baltic states used to be richer than Russia by only a small margin. Today, their GDP per capita is 2.5x that of Russia. Putin cannot let Moldova/Belarus/Ukraine go down that same path of growth. It would make it too obvious how much his money stealing hurts Russians. It’s already obvious of course, but it’s still at the point where propaganda is sufficient to pretend to the Russian people that his corruption is not causing this, and that it’s merely a more general misfortune of the region. A prosperous Ukraine/Moldova/Belarus hurts his narrative and thereby his survival, so he cannot allow it.


>But also economic problems. Just ten years ago, Russia was actually richer per capita than eastern European countries Bulgaria and Romania. Russia's GDP was not so far behind that of France's around that time. Only 600 billion dollars difference. Russia's GDP, however, took a freaking' nose dive of 600, 700 billions of dollars after the Crimean adventure and now Russia's GDP stands at 1.4 trillion, while that of France is... 2.6 trillion. Putin is single-handedly erasing the progress of the last 20 years. I think Russia's GDP per capita is now $3,000 below that of Romania.


Sanctions are absolutely killing the russian economy. It's a shame people hand wave them away like they're worthless.


Self-inflicted economic problems. Wonder if he's still happy he took Crimea?


The fundamental economic problems are due to corruption: Putin and his inner circle stealing money from the Russian people. Sure, there is self-inflicted economic problems on top of that from having to sustain Crimea, but that’s not the core mechanism at play here.


That and they are having a difficult time keeping control of their proxy countries. Citizens are rising up and they are trying to elect new leaders, but Russia keeps coming in and squashing that with extreme violence. Putin is losing his grip. The people are pissed, dying and broke. However there are lots of other rich people and politicians also losing control all around the world. Many countries are very weak right now. Economies teetering on the brink and the people are learning more and more every day how the rich and the politicians are fucking us all over. Great time for a good old fashioned war to distract everyone and reboot economies while the rich , profit even more.


"Putin is losing his grip. The people are pissed, dying and broke." Sounds like the end of the USSR all over again.


How's Putin's health btw? It'll be a shame if he had to be suddenly replaced as head of state, wouldn't it?


No, we know him the scrabble for power that would follow his demise would make stupidity more not less likely. Don't forget that Russia is a nation obsessed by the strongman leader and so any potential successor would have to prove how tough he was and what better way to do this but to start a war?


Russians seem halfway sensible. Do they actually fall for this?


The Russian state controls the media because secretly Putin owns it or has close friends who do. And you have a large population who still remembers the USSR and he plays on that image and return of power. "Make America great again" "Make Russia Great again" playing into the same identity crisis that lifted Trump into power. Edit: He also is the richest person in the world.


"Moscow has demanded legally binding guarantees from NATO that the bloc will stop its expansion and return to its 1997 borders." Which also includes Latvia, Estonia, and Lithuania. All countries which have had to deal with toe-the-line border disruptions from Russian troops and shunting of refugees from Russia/Belarus. Putin wants to bring the old gang back together. Nobody in the the gang wants to be back (at least their citizens), so he has to send troops (Belarus, Kazakhstan, Ukraine) to bully them (and/or prop up their dictators).


the only reason baltics joined nato was because it the only way not to join russians again. our people would join eternal hordes of hell if what would make them russians in different team.


It's quite telling that none of the Baltics want anything to do with Russia considering they were a part of the Russian Empire and the Soviet Union for a very long time.


There is no legitimate threats for russians, except Putin himself.


He’s just making a big stink so that he can tell Russians about how he’s protecting them from the west.


And we'd like Russian forces to leave Crimea and the Donbas yet here we are.


We might as well ask them to leave Chechnya. Even Russian people say Chechnyans aren't Russian and they fought hard not to be.


They should leave Transnistria, South Ossetia and Abkhazia.


Königsberg too.


And Karelia


Chechens, not Chechnyans. And you're right, Russians are always talking shit about them.


He killed sixteen Czechoslovakians, he’s an interior decorator!


His house looked like shit


It's crazy how they keep asking for more after being denied they previous demands.


They're trying to create a reason to justify their invasion of Ukraine. They'll make more and more absurd demands and then whine that NATO is not agreeing to anything. It's slimy and disgusting.


How is NATO in Bulgaria even related to Ukraine? If that's the case, then it's just stupid and they aren't even trying to hide it.


Their argument is "waaaah we're being surrounded" pretty much. They will whine about anyone in Europe if it helps them.


Maybe if Russia stopped invading all the countries around it, then all those countries wouldn't be flocking to join NATO. Little bit of cause and effect there vladdy.


But if they stopped looking outward, then they would be forced to look inward at a what a shithole the country has become under Vlad's "leadership". He can't have that.


This can't be true! Vlad has a nice little not-at-all-shithole dacha on the Black Sea, and we all just adore the lifestyles of the rich and famous, don't we? Toss in some whataboutism, a World Cup, Islamic terrorism, crush some whiny intellectuals, mix, and we're good for another year.


I get saddened when I think what Russia has become today. They could be busy gifting the world with great literature or scientific breakthroughs in many fields, but choose to spend their energy on warmongering.


The biggest country in the world being surrounded is a joke ;) You would need ten USAs to "surround" Russia.


This is how a bully acts when it finally understands he can't bully their neighbors anymore.


When a bully looks really hurt cos someone dared to hit back..lol


Noone has hit back. A few people are banding together saying they fight the bully together in case he attacks. Otherwise mostly everyone is simply occupied with getting trough life in peace.


Russia is the jock that everyone in high school hated. Obnoxious, mean spirited and thinned skinned.


The only remotely legitimate reason I can think of is the Transnistria fuckery, but that's a whole another story in itself


It's a fuckery. Sure a lot of Russians live there, but you can't just claim every land where people of your ethnicity live. If that was the case, Russian federation couldn't exist due to its vast ethnic diversity. In such case all ethnic groups in Russia would deserve their own country. But as we learn ethnicity≠nationality.


russian federation would not exist as democracy


I’m pretty sure we have seen that playbook used before, except by a certain European power in the 1930s.


Bloody Frenchmen


It's 99.99% theatrics, and not even for the benefit of the Russian people. If and when Putin wants to invade, he will. The idea they need a provocation is a bit silly - the Russian people don't really care about that, they genuinely want their Empire back. God knows why, it was a bit shit the first time.




I asked my parents once about that since they grew up in the USSR. According to them and anyone around them, life was good if you lived in the Moscow area, but quickly turned to crap as soon as you stepped a meter outside that area.


Parents are from Moscow. Can confirm they think life was great. Funnily enough they worked for state agencies. Dad worked for the a Science institute and mom worked as an accountant for a major government agency. Well of course you're well off if you have high ranking jobs with moderate security clearance for the government. And when you move your education and job experience doesn't mean that much so you're at the bottom of the ladder in the country you move to.


With the past ones, you at least have the good fortune of survivors’ bias and hindsight to tell you that “things were hard then, but we got through them ok.”


There was also a significant social safety net. In the USSR the housing may have sucked and the jobs may have sucked but at least you always knew you’d have a house and a job. In Russia today if there is a recession or a depression you could find yourself unemployed, living on the streets with no significant help from things like welfare, medicaid or UI. In many ways Russia today is a lot scarier for the average person than the Soviet Union.


Yea but the ussr wasn't emperor Putin big Russian federation of cronies either life was far from paradise by any means but work place, housing, healthcare and education was provided among other things, then vodka yeltsin came along and put a lot of people's in adject missery by dismantelling all the support structure in the blink of an eye while selling all Russia assets to his homies for pennies in the name of private enterprise while a staggering amount of capital flew to Switzerland The old communist guard "just" tolerate the guy, i suspect cos they don't have enough people ralliing for them, nor much of a choice either, like everyone else's


I agree with the first point but have certain disagreements with the latter. Let me preface by saying that I am not from any country that was part of the USSR, nor am I trying to defend the USSR - I just think there was far too much propaganda spewed from both sides to really get a good understanding of what the USSR was like for average citizens. From what I understand, the reason why Russians (especially older folk) are nostalgic of the USSR is that while it was authoritarian and plagued with issues, it was an ordered mess - at least respective to the chaos experienced by many soviet block countries following the fall. People who have been exposed to order for so long tend to become dependent on it, and to lose it corresponds for some as loss of structure and purpose. The Soviet Block was advantageous in some ways for these countries because each are missing resources/assets and therefore have to rely on their neighbours for it. Since the development in international trade the need for such a big amalgamation of countries is no longer necessary; however, due to the fact that they were ideologically opposed to big trade players during the cold war, those countries got a late start in trade relations and suffered for it. The resource limitations are in the end the reason why Russia wants to invade Ukraine. I do not study history or geopolitics. Please correct me if I am wrong.


Yeah. But justify to who ? Who is dumb enough to think there war is justified ? Especially after all these ridiculous demands. Even Russian people should be able to see through this, right ?


> Even Russian people should be able to see through this, right ? You would be surprised how willing people are to believe blatant propaganda. It definitely won't be enough for everyone, but all they need is to keep the people from going against Putin's goals.


Russia controls their media.. just like China.. it works wonders .. just look at how FOX NEWS fuck us over


Tucker Carlson is now taking Russia’s side in this conflict. The most watched man on cable news is telling Americans that WE’RE the villains and Russia is the hero. I hate Ronald Reagan but damn would it be hilarious to see him come back to life and kick the everliving shit out of everyone at that company.


Just to piggyback on this comment. There are whispers of Tucker running for president in 2024.


As an european i choose to believe that Tucker isnt a real name


And people in the west who sincerely believe that America is the worst nation in the world are susceptible to these crocodile tears


Same with the chinese shills, and there are SO many of them its insane.


Did you hear the time a bunch of sino simps jumped the great firewall and attacked Thailand on Twitter because they thought they were dealing with another group of ultra nationalists but Thai Twitter users are liberal/ republican and loved the fire commentary the Chinese were making against Thai Conservatives and the King. I love the internet.


Ive had several of them offer to pay me to delete my comments listing various facts about how pretty much the entire Chinese military is just propaganda. Of course, I never accept- which gets them madder and madder :D


... I will pay you to comment said facts right now. Please and thank you.


I want to hear your facts too!


Which comments? Would like to read them


Just go take a peek in r/Russia, and realize those are people who mostly speak English and have access to a wide variety of sources and are still brainwashed. Now imagine the people in Russia are 10x more nationalistic, uninformed, or apathetic.


Those people are paid to be on reddit.


Some of them, I'm sure. Not all. It doesn't make any sense to have an isolated forum that is all bots and paid trolls jerking off to each other. The point is to capture some gullible or sympathetic western minds. Check out r/genZedong or r/Sino for similar content for the CCP. There are true believers out there who really think they have had their eyes opened regarding western propaganda. It's not that far removed from MAGA people and their alternate version of reality based on conspiracy theories (i.e. alternative propaganda) that simply believe the opposite of nearly anything mainstream media says. To be fair, western propaganda does exist and is often more subtle, but I think most rational people can agree that reality lies somewhere closer to the western perspective in general.




What I don't understand is that they are with more than 100k soldiers at rhe border with Ukraine.. ready to invade.


Fuck that mobster piece of shit.


What's a lot crazier is that Romania is both an EU and NATO member. It's one thing to demand that NATO and the EU don't escalate things by moving into a non-NATO, non-EU country like Ukraine. But now they're straight up demanding that NATO doesn't NATO in a NATO country.


Both countries are in EU/Nato, not just Romania.


Not to mention that Romania was not part of the Russian Empire. They gained their independence from the Ottomans in 1878. The reason Romania was part of the Eastern Block was because in WWII red army troops got to Romania and then never left until the Cold War ended. Russia doesn’t just get to have a country that was never part of Russia just because it was forcibly occupied by Russia at one point in time.


They started negotiations by demanding NATO to not station any troops beyond the former Inner-German border. They want the alliance to flat out abandon every member that joined after 1997… Utterly unacceptable. Stoltenberg was right when he said Russia essentially wanted NATO to abolish itself - because that’s what such a decision would have boiled down to. If Poland, eastern Europe and the Balkans are thrown to the bear, what guarantees do Germany, Norway, Denmark and the BeNeLux countries have for NATO to not do the same to them at the slightest amount of pressure?!


> If Poland, eastern Europe and the Balkans are thrown to the bear, what guarantees do Germany.. have None. Which is how Putin wants it. People forget that Putin literally spent years of his life stationed in the occupying army in Berlin. Putin's nostalgic view of a just world involves the KGB in Berlin. The bully tyrant doesn't want to stop. The only thing stopping him are Western institutions like NATO. We'd be idiots to appease him forever. He doesn't respect boundaries. His next demand will be even more intrusive.


Well, I guess that the Romanian forces will have to be relocated outside Romania, duuh.


Maybe in defensive formation in Ukraine/Russia border on Ukraine's side


In Moldova Oops


Yeh next ones will be "I want all the borders lined with Smarties" and "replace all your Parliament buildings with bouncy castles".


That's how you victimise yourself and come up but a casus belli. They're asking ridiculous shit, get denied, and then when they've been denied a dozen times, they can state that they tried democracy and the evil NATO/EU didn't play ball, and conclude that armed war is the only remaining possibility.


So, Russia wants to recreate the Warsaw Pact?


They won't stop until their influence ends at the river Elbe.


As a Romanian, I can only say this: fck Russia and their demands.


What are the chances of Russia trying to link Crimea with Transnistria?


About as high as Russia trying to destabilize the region between those two areas.


They want NATO to leave NATO territory. NATO wants them to leave a sovereign country alone.


Why are you being so unreasonable? Russian military members are just on vacation. We let them borrow tanks for sight seeing purposes.




Bulgarian army go hom- ....to Malaysia!


Good luck with that. How about a wall through Berlin too?


NATO should tell Russia that they can't have troops past the line towards Europe as a "no u" power move,


I want a Ferrari




War averted! Russians to receive Ferraris


Well, your demand has the same values as the Russia's. You should expect same treatment.


Because of your denial he will now demand a spaceship


“If you don’t withdraw your troops and support from these countries, we will invade” “But you literally invaded Crimea and we didn’t have any troops or support there” “Do not worry, we will not invade as long as you make it easy for us to invade, I mean as long as you don’t defend these from invasion, I mean as long as you seek peace”


It feels like some Russian kid trying desperately, with broken English in Rust to get you to open your base door even though its a 1000% chance he is standing there with a shotgun, and you know that by his weird threats.


This is just a haggling tactic. Make over the top demands so that the original demand appears more reasonable....


why not demand Russian troops leave Kalinigrad?


Probably a tough proposition considering Russian ethnically cleansed all the native Germans after WWII.


I mean Argenina expected the british to just let them annex the falklands.


It's a great tactic. I'll go demand that Jeff Bezos hand over to me a sum no less than 1 billion dollars, then 10 billion dollars. At that point he has no choice but to give me at least a million or two.


Bad faith bargaining is not a haggling tactic. It's how you insult people into walking away from the table all together. Asking NATO to leave Bulgaria and Romania is basically just like asking NATO to be disbanded all together, because if those demands were met that is what would effectively happen, NATO members would lose faith in the alliance and it would fall apart.


This isn't a trade deal, but a hostage negotiation. Bad faith demands are par for the course.


>This is just a haggling tactic. Doesn't seem like a good one.


What are the wag the dog issues in Russia? As a petro state, shouldn't they be sitting back and counting their cheddar instead of looking for a distraction?




That and complete control of all of the state security, parliament, military and the backing of a bunch of oligarchs.


Uhh, Russia doesn't dictate the foreign policies of other sovereign nations. Romania, Bulgaria and the post 1997 NATO members control their own foreign policies just like Russia does. If they want to be NATO members it's their call not his. Putin can honestly go fuck off.




They are aware of what they're doing, they're creating more justifications for the invasion. The time of negotiations seems to be over if this is the level they want to keep.


The only thing Putin is creating justification for is more countries in NATO. He's lost it. All the Botox has gotten to his head.


The justifications are actually for domestic reasons. But yeah, he's lost it.


Putin is getting old, already flirted with the idea of leaving the Presidency (matters of power aside), and domestic issues are a huge mess. It's definitely for domestic reasons to distract from actual real issues and create a siege mentality so nationalistic fervor takes over domestic discontent. To me it actually seems like an immature display of weakness, to pick a fight and attempt to future proof Russian security interests for the time period after Putin.


They're trying to stoke Russian nationalism because covid is destroying their country and they can't recover


I don't care about what Russia wants.


So Putin wants to present Russia as good guys yet going back to Cold War rhetoric being afraid of NATO presence - newsflash if you’re a good guy you don’t need to be afraid of NATO, if you’re a total cunt then it’s different. Can’t have a cake and eat it too


How about no ?


Russia probably wants NATO forces out of all NATO countries. That's kinda the entire point of NATO tho ...


Damn the Russians (edit: specifically the government) are annoying


Time to stop relying on their gas. Well the time was long ago.


Well fuck you Putin. Time to put him in his place. The mafia needs to end.


Perhaps it is time for NATO to request the return of Prussia to Germany. Free Konigsberg. Stop the repression.


Can we hear from russian citizen in the thread? I'm curious what they think of things unfolding atm.


Dear Russia: Fuck you and fuck off. No love, Lexi


Like most dictatorship, mostly for internal consumption.


ah, the next target for facist russian expansion


That's not going to happen anytime too soon, so they need to stop asking.


I'm sure they do


Wait a sec, how about the Baltics? And Poland?


Those are not real countries anyway according to Putin


Russia wants control over the Black Sea. First Crimea, and now Romania and Bulgaria. Should we add that there seems to be significant natural gas resources in the Black Sea, that can ease the dependence on the Russian gas.


The thing that annoys me is Russia demands but does it even talk to the leaders of the governments of Romania and Bulgaria and not only them but also the leader of Ukraine so Russia could understand their concerns! Or is Vladimir Putin just wanna bully people cuz he has never been denied anything in his unintelligent life.


we demand you guys to disarm yourselves immediately or else! Cmoon guys, we won't invade🤞


Wants and needs. Ukraine *wants* to join NATO. The world *wants* Russia to knock off the sabre rattling. No one *needs* a war.


Wouldn't that be up to Bulgaria and Romania?


Let's get this into perspective.These countries are now free to decide what they want for themselves.One of those choices was to protect themselves from the dictatorship they had under mother Russia.If they want to leave NATO it will be their decision not Putin's. They joined as free people and they can leave as free people ..... PUTIN YOU DON'T GET TO CHOOSE WHAT FREE COUNTRIES DO .


As @osinttechnical (Twitter) put it, it goes to show that Russia has been negotiating with bad faith all along. There is a general consensus here in the UK that we should stay out of politics and wars abroad which don't concern us, but what people are forgetting is that war is about to be bought to our doorstep and our NATO neighbours. That immediately involves us by obligation. Our country's too worried about Boris Johnson having a lockdown party while Russia is cutting gas supplies, sending one of the largest amphibious navy assault groups through the Engish channel and to the black sea and setting up the pretense for a large scale war. They're pulling out all the stops now because Putin has locked himself in a corner and the demands have become unreasonable.


> Our country's too worried about Boris Johnson having a lockdown party blame the fucking rupert murdoch media. Putin is banging Murdoch's ex-wife. Wendi Deng. I imagine we're supposed to think that these people being so closely associated is just a fucking coincidence.


So this is really bad right? because obviously this isn’t going to happen


This is very bad faith bargaining. Bulgaria and Romania are both NATO members, where does it stop? Putin might as well have just asked "Hey can you guys just disband the entirety of NATO?" because that is effectively what they are asking us to do.


Russia wants a lot of things.


Us Europeans need to stand together against this threat.


All of NATO needs to. The US certainly has the power, and Canada has already been pretty supportive


So when Russia puts troops at its borders it's OK, but if NATO does the same it's not?


Does Putin also demand the Rhineland?


Bulgaria's official response: "We're a sovereign country. Get stuffed!" > "Bulgaria is a sovereign country, which has made its choice long ago by becoming a NATO member. As such, we alone decide to organise the defence of our country in coordination with our partners," Prime Minister Petkov told parliament.


Pfuai di plm...


Russia can go fuck itself. They complain about nato “surrounding” them yet one side doesn’t constitute surrounding. They can park on most of Ukraine’s borders like Transdniester, Donbass, Crimea, eastern border, the northern border and the Belarus Ukraine border. Fuck Russia and the clowns defending belligerence.